Brexit (Old)

It wasn’t a factor, this coming from Honda itself.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It wasn’t a factor, this coming from Honda itself.

You may believe everything companies want you to believe. I wear my professional sceptic's hat.
Put it another way, if I were Honda, I would have everything to lose and nothing to gain by saying that Brexit was a factor.
As someone commented on the FT website today "What’s behind the statement? The Japanese are being very polite and diplomatic today, as I would expect.
They are not going to say, “you morons made an awful decision so we are off”. If they had, well, that really would have been a news story..."

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You may believe everything companies want you to believe. I wear my professional sceptic's hat.
Put it another way, if I were Honda, I would have everything to lose and nothing to gain by saying that Brexit was a factor.
As someone commented on the FT website today "What’s behind the statement? The Japanese are being very polite and diplomatic today, as I would expect.
They are not going to say, “you morons made an awful decision so we are off”. If they had, well, that really would have been a news story..."

Absolute rubbish.

I repeat, Brexit is not a factor, as per Honda saying so itself, you are well aware there is a global decline for car companies. I know this doesn't suit your pathetic negative, Anti-Brexit agenda, but those are the facts and I do believe them, I trust their word, far more than yours.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

Absolute rubbish.

I repeat, Brexit is not a factor, as per Honda saying so itself, you are well aware there is a global decline for car companies. I know this doesn't suit your pathetic negative, Anti-Brexit agenda, but those are the facts and I do believe them, I trust their word, far more than yours.

Did you trust Nissan's word when they said brexit was a factor in their decision or didn't that suit your agenda...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Absolute rubbish.

I repeat, Brexit is not a factor, as per Honda saying so itself, you are well aware there is a global decline for car companies. I know this doesn't suit your pathetic negative, Anti-Brexit agenda, but those are the facts and I do believe them, I trust their word, far more than yours.

I guess you believed them too in September 2016

TOKYO - Honda will continue its operations in the UK despite the country's vote to quit the European Union, a top executive said.
Honda Executive Vice President Seiji Kuraishi said the Japanese automaker has "no intention" of withdrawing from the UK where it is investing to make its sole factory in the country a global production hub.

https://europe.autonews.com/article/...despite-brexit

[Angua]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The margin of the referendum result was more than a MILLION.

The Remain side are insisting on at least "freedom of movement" and a Customs Union. Those are completely at odds with the Leave side. What compromises have the Remain side offered?

The Remain side should've accepted the DEMOCRATIC result and tried make things happen better and easier, instead of try to sabotage it. The time and effort having to be spent on defending from anti-democratic attacks, would've been better spent on preparing plans for a hard Brexit. Then where the EU were prepared to do a deal on an aspect, that part of the plan could be crossed out or amended accordingly.

The margin of those who voted is not the whole story and never has been, despite the constantly repeated figure of 1.4 million, it is still far less than those who did not vote because they could not make up their mind.

We have a divided parliament, divided political parties and a divided nation.

Oh, and a lot of people voted Labour last time to stop the Tories rather than because they supported Leaving.

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by Angua

We have a divided parliament, divided political parties and a divided nation.

Oh, and a lot of people voted Labour last time to stop the Tories rather than because they supported Leaving.

We voted Liberal here as the real choice was between Tory and liberals. Labour had no chance of winning here.

[1andrew1]

My popcorn's at the ready for this development!

A group of up to 30 government ministers are preparing block a no-deal Brexit.
They are working out how many of them need to resign from government in order to support the Cooper/Letwin amendment that will give parliament the power to take no-deal off the table.
The older ministers are preparing to resign so the younger ones don't have to, with one minister telling me he is already organising his departmental leaving party in anticipation of his resignation.
One rebel said: "The country looks on and thinks we're being run by 40 MPs, and that decisions about Brexit are being taken solely to keep the Tory party together. That simply can't do."
This looming showdown will prove explosive for the Conservative Party: the fury of the Brexiteers will be a sight to behold should their colleagues vote to give parliament the power to defy their own prime minister by ruling out no-deal and, if necessary, delaying Brexit.

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views...-will-11642360

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I guess you believed them too in September 2016

https://europe.autonews.com/article/...despite-brexit

Yes I absolutely did.

A lot can happen in 3 years. Global trends change, effecting World Markets, the Diesel issue in Europe being one of them. I reiterate for the 3rd time, Brexit doesn’t come in to scope, for the issue of Honda’s UK departure.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

The margin of those who voted is not the whole story and never has been, despite the constantly repeated figure of 1.4 million, it is still far less than those who did not vote because they could not make up their mind.

We have a divided parliament, divided political parties and a divided nation.

Oh, and a lot of people voted Labour last time to stop the Tories rather than because they supported Leaving.

Those who do not vote because they couldn’t be arsed to or were not bothered, do not count, I know you like to keep throwing up this argument, but it is irrelevant.

Also, you cannot rubbish the claim, 80% of the electorate voted for Brexit supporting parties, if the majority of the electorate is or was passionately against Brexit, as you erroneously keep claiming, then they would have voted Liberal Democrat’s.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Pretty clear that Brexit was one of the factors leading to the closure of Honda Swindon. Like FlyBMI, it is unlikely to be the only reason but it can well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

David Bailey, an economics professor at Aston University has said “I think we’re seeing a collision between Brexit uncertainty making investment difficult, just as the industry is transforming itself. Honda came to the UK because it offered a launchpad into the single market. There’s a lot of bewilderment in Japan about Brexit because what we offered them has been taken away. We’re not upholding our side of the deal so they don’t need to either. There may have been more of a chance of the UK being a centre of electric vehicle production if we stayed in the single market and if we had a more supportive industrial strategy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-close-in-2021

So I have been thinking a bit about why Honda made the decision it did. As I have said before, the choice of where to site a manufacturing plant is driven by cost and ease of doing business. Cost would include cost of labour, synergies/critical mass of existing plant, taxes, closeness to your market and the tariff and non-tariff costs of shipping to your customers and receiving parts from your suppliers. Ease of doing business would be assuring the quality you need in your product, the skills of your workforce, legislation governing your business and, as above, the closeness of your customers and the costs of shipping (tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade)

The Swindon factory was a small plant in the grand scheme of things while, at the same time, there was spare capacity in Japan for manufacturing. Moving the manufacturing to Japan reduces Hondas costs of manufacturing and allows flexibility in the output - this month we will make less Civics and more CR-Vs for example. It does make economic sense to bring together manufacturing under one roof as it can grow your margin.

However, there are some risks... One is disaster planning - having multiple plants is a good idea in case something goes wrong. The second is moving away from a significant market - Europe. However, two things are helping here - one is the cost of moving cars around the world is dropping. The second is a certain EU-Japan trade deal, lowering the tariffs on cars eventually to zero. Again, the margin on a zero tariff car will be higher than one that attracts a 10% tariff.

During the negotiations, France and Germany argued against dropping the tariffs on cars as it would a) compete against EU made cars and b) cause shutdowns of Japanese car manufacturing sites in Europe. The UK and Japan pushed hard for the zero tariffs and got them.

Where does Brexit come in here? There will be a degree of uncertainty, especially related to supply chains and tier 2 supplier costs, as well as the costs of exporting from the UK to the EU if they do occur. At the moment, noone knows, generating a lot of uncertainty. I think the Honda decision had little to do with Brexit but may have been the straw that broke the donkeys back. The decision was economic.

There are of course unintended consequences... If we don't get a good trade deal with Japan, then the following will be the case;

EU gets no Honda factories but cheaper cars
UK gets no Honda factories but more expensive cars

Sorry, bit of a brain dump!

Honda is also withdrawing from Turkey, no Texit going on there, as they’re not even in the EU.

[mrmistoffelees]

Honda has three European sites, only one of which is manufacturing which is Swindon the other two in Belgium are predominantly storage/parts.

I think the move to modular platforms by manufacturers will accelerate plant closures globally, you just don't need a plant for a specific model anymore.

As much as I'm a staunch remainer and as much as i would like to blame it, I don't think Brexit is the issue here at all. The automotive industry is going through change the like has not been seen since we transitioned from horse and carriage to the ICE.

Whilst the ICE still has a part to play it's days are numbered. I'm due to change my car this year. I was initially looking at the Touraeg, SQ5 & X5, of which there are multiple heavily discounted examples available. Now, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a Model X.

In other words, the technology required is more affordable, manufacturers are reacting to supply and demand from the consumer.

I feel for not only the Swindon workers but also the surrounding supply chain job losses that are also inevitable. I just wonder when Nissan will do the same.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Honda has three European sites, only one of which is manufacturing which is Swindon the other two in Belgium are predominantly storage/parts.

I think the move to modular platforms by manufacturers will accelerate plant closures globally, you just don't need a plant for a specific model anymore.

As much as I'm a staunch remainer and as much as i would like to blame it, I don't think Brexit is the issue here at all. The automotive industry is going through change the like has not been seen since we transitioned from horse and carriage to the ICE.

Whilst the ICE still has a part to play it's days are numbered. I'm due to change my car this year. I was initially looking at the Touraeg, SQ5 & X5, of which there are multiple heavily discounted examples available. Now, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a Model X.

In other words, the technology required is more affordable, manufacturers are reacting to supply and demand from the consumer.

I feel for not only the Swindon workers but also the surrounding supply chain job losses that are also inevitable. I just wonder when Nissan will do the same.

Succinctly put, however much we disagree on Brexit itself.

[ianch99]

Spain is playing silly games regarding the "Colony" of Gibraltar:

Britons may need £52 visa to visit mainland Europe after Brexit

British tourists travelling to continental Europe may need to pay £52 for a visa in a few weeks after Spanish demands over the status of Gibraltar again derailed Brussels’ preparations for Brexit.

Agreement on legislation exempting UK nationals from requiring the travel permit is mired in a dispute over whether the British overseas territory should be described as a “colony” in the EU’s statute book.

Spain has insisted, with the reluctant support of the other 26 member states, that a footnote containing the contentious description of the disputed territory is added to the legislation.

But the European parliament on Wednesday morning rejected the language proposed by the council of the European Union, the body that represents the member states.

It is the third time the member states’ proposal has been sent back by MEPs and casts doubt over whether the legislation can be salvaged in the next few weeks.

[mrmistoffelees]

Gove talking to the farmers

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...hael-gove-says