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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15-08-2008, 23:15   #14176
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Could everyone please get back to the topic of Phorm.Thank you.
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:16   #14177
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Regarding Alex complaints, how very disappointing. But yet almost identical to the conversations I had with Avon and Somerset Detectives, in April, in Bath and Bristol.

After 7 months of this nonsense, I think I understand what is going on here.

It is time to make a European complaint.

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Old 15-08-2008, 23:19   #14178
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Well if they get more complainent they wont be happy UK goverment is already ingoring thme
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:21   #14179
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Glad to see all the New Members I'm just sorry that the Outburst came at once again such an important point in the debate.

Which I am starting to become very curious about?

I hope some of you find the information useful & feel able to contribute in the future!
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:23   #14180
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have a question are the one that are complaining complained before? or posted before? just wonder if they work for PHORM
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:33   #14181
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisey View Post
hi i am new but been reading the thread for quite a while. why are all of you fighting like this? dont you think that Phorm are laughing their heads off right now? your self destruct is exactly what they want and frankly, will validate everything they say about all of you elsewhere.
daisey and

I think feelings are running high because it has been frustrating trying to get someone to identify that 'they' are responsible for investigating our complaints. Probably wrongly, the police have been largely ignoring well thought out and justified complaints from members of the public who have issues that they genuinely feel need investigating.

When after seemingly achieving one of our objectives (probably will be dwarfed by the EC issues), the apparent lack of response after one whole month of the police having in their possession a mass of information which obviously had been ignored was frustrating to all concerned. I feel the policeman on the other end of the phone behaved as described by BetBlowWhistler in an earlier post and could have behaved a little better.

If as a result of this episode, the police do pull up their socks and look into the case, perhaps it may well be the kick-start needed. I don't blame the police as I know they are well overworked with meeting ridiculous paperwork targets set by the government, but I feel the issue should have been looked into properly by now.

I still maintain this forum is the best place to voice all our issues. I totally despise the baiting that goes on by certain members but if someone comes here with well thought out pro Phorm arguments there are many people on this forum well qualified to debunk them without resorting to name calling.

I hope we all cool down and sleep on it.
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:48   #14182
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Proof, if proof were needed, that if the Police choose to do so they will apply RIPA to civilians... Glenn Mulcaire in 2007.

It helps if the victim is a member of a Royal Family.
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Old 15-08-2008, 23:59   #14183
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation View Post
Proof, if proof were needed, that if the Police choose to do so they will apply RIPA civilians... Glenn Mulcaire in 2007.

It helps if the victim is a member of a Royal Family.
Has anybody asked any members of the RF if they would object if their browsing habits were being intercepted by Phorms WebWise black box?
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Old 16-08-2008, 00:06   #14184
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I'm going to ask one more time for people to stick to the topic of preventing Phorm from being implemented on any scale across the UK and world wide.Sadly the discussion seems to be getting further and further away from that position.

Now back on topic.
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Old 16-08-2008, 00:19   #14185
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Cool Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation View Post
Proof, if proof were needed, that if the Police choose to do so they will apply RIPA civilians... Glenn Mulcaire in 2007.

It helps if the victim is a member of a Royal Family.
If you know the history here, skip 2 para's...

Welcome new posting members to the forum thread here. Despite the unfortunate post earlier there are some here who are not "phorm-hat3rs" but just think it is wrong to intercept communication without either a legal warrant to do so, or (as required under law) the consent of both parties in the communication.

I have personally tried to report the admission by BT of their interceptions in 2006 & 2007 to my local police service, but they told me it was not their responsibility. They said I had to refer it to The Interception of Communication Commissioner in London (Sir Paul Kennedy). Sir Paul's office said no, it's not us, it IS the police. So I was back to them again. Then they said, you have no evidence you were a victim of the alleged crime and BT having offices in this county is not a reason for us to investigate it, hence no reported crime number.

Today:

Good news, perhaps!

Regular readers of my contrbiution will know I said that I had to help another person with major issues on their BT Broaband which worked for several months and then stopped working. This person saves everything, there's a file or envelope for every item of paperwork. I had a dream a few weeks ago, a dream that the issue included display of "Sysip" on the web browser status bar and far too many similarites to the issues others described.

I remembered in my dream that I was on the phone for long periods of time (holding) and that BT "lost" details of my previous calls. Quite odd.

The good news is... I do now have that evidence. I was indeed a victim during the BT trials. I spend HOURS and HOURS, frustrated during the time I was not hard at work earning a salary, trying to help someone get their PC working as it should with access to the internet which they had enjoyed until the trial started.

I have only acquired this detail today. Dates, times, telephone numbers and IVR details ("Push 1 for x, push 2 for y" etc), names of BT reps, call information, reference numbers, suggested possible causes and how they turned out to be false etc.

BT KNOWS they were running a trial of Phorm/121 Media systems at the time. They know now, and I suspect looking at my notes that the people I dealt with knew at the time (even if it was not the call handling operatives, their senior managers knew). I will be copying and sending to the police as the additional information "As a victim of their interception carried out without legal warrant and without my consent".

If anyone else here has progressed any such report I would like info on the process and their experience.

I am not a "Phorm hater" (capitalisation on proper nouns is important, don't you think?) and although I am sure Alexander gets emotionally engaged because he feels passionately that there is a cause to pursue, I don't think that his blog is in any way grotty. I have not listened to the audio, I don't think I need to, my own experience is that the police service are not equipped to deal with this issue, there are big issues for them to deal with, but they can't just ignore this. And we don't know what decisions are being taken behind the scenes at a higher level...

After my last ditch attempt to progress here, it will be off to the EU and Commissioner Redding.

Existing members here - stay with it. New members, don't drop out because of one bad night. There's always a big negative debate when news which is anti-Phorm is published (don't know why, but it is true, every time)

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Old 16-08-2008, 00:23   #14186
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse View Post
daisey and

I think feelings are running high because it has been frustrating trying to get someone to identify that 'they' are responsible for investigating our complaints. Probably wrongly, the police have been largely ignoring well thought out and justified complaints from members of the public who have issues that they genuinely feel need investigating.

When after seemingly achieving one of our objectives (probably will be dwarfed by the EC issues), the apparent lack of response after one whole month of the police having in their possession a mass of information which obviously had been ignored was frustrating to all concerned. I feel the policeman on the other end of the phone behaved as described by BetBlowWhistler in an earlier post and could have behaved a little better.

If as a result of this episode, the police do pull up their socks and look into the case, perhaps it may well be the kick-start needed. I don't blame the police as I know they are well overworked with meeting ridiculous paperwork targets set by the government, but I feel the issue should have been looked into properly by now.

I still maintain this forum is the best place to voice all our issues. I totally despise the baiting that goes on by certain members but if someone comes here with well thought out pro Phorm arguments there are many people on this forum well qualified to debunk them without resorting to name calling.

I hope we all cool down and sleep on it.

i totally agree. dont think that there are not tons of people out there, reading this and laughing their heads off.

as for the call to the police issue--why deal with the lowest common denominator. these are big issues. this detective probably could not understand the issues if he tried. i agree that you must go to the european union.

also, these small protests with under a dozen people--they just give phorm lots of ammunition against you. it looked, frankly, silly and as if no one cares about or supports your cause--as if its true when the ceo says you are a small bunch of loud scaremongerers.

it works against you.
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Old 16-08-2008, 00:29   #14187
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisey View Post
Is it normal to police this much?
Ok for the newer and not so new members of CF I will link to the sites T&Cs. http://www.cableforum.co.uk/about/21...and-conditions

IN particular I would like to draw everyone's attention to point 6 of the sub section entitled Forum Use.


Quote:
You agree that you will not: Argue a moderators decision publicly. Any and all complaints directed at a moderating decision should first be addressed to the moderator in question via private message. If the problem can not be resolved, then You should state Your position to the webmasters, who will make or change any and/or all final decisions on a democratic basis.
I would also like to point out that this site exists mainly as a help site for cable users and Phorm is just one part of the whole.
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Old 16-08-2008, 00:34   #14188
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisey View Post

...these small protests with under a dozen people--they just give phorm lots of ammunition ...looked, frankly, silly and as if no one cares about or supports your cause...

it works against you.
Yeah but remember that just because they were only a small representative group, there are many more who could not be there. I wasn't there and neither were 100+ people I know agree strongly with the point they were making. Then there's 1000's who made the effort to sign the petition (easy to do but requires SOME effort so 16k signatures is not insignificant)

I think if you mean, a small protest looks bad in PR terms, yes perhaps agree with you there -- if not contexted as I have done here. It was not a Saturday after all.
 
Old 16-08-2008, 00:38   #14189
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Home Office consulting on data retention directives.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse View Post
Has anybody asked any members of the RF if they would object if their browsing habits were being intercepted by Phorms WebWise black box?
Yes. I've had a reply too.
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Old 16-08-2008, 00:40   #14190
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Yeah but remember that just because they were only a small representative group, there are many more who could not be there. I wasn't there and neither were 100+ people I know agree strongly with the point they were making. Then there's 1000's who made the effort to sign the petition (easy to do but requires SOME effort so 16k signatures is not insignificant)

I think if you mean, a small protest looks bad in PR terms, yes perhaps agree with you there -- if not contexted as I have done here. It was not a Saturday after all.
hi Hank
Yes, I do mean that the exercise was TERRIBLE in PR terms. I think that no matter what the intention (and I agree 100% that you have tons of support etc) that you (collective) must try to play on your opponents playing field.... and you are not doing that. Truely, if I was them I would take the photo of Alex Hanff there with three other people and send it straight to every single person i was trying to negotiate with to show them that I (phorm) am correct in saying you guys are a non-entity. also - last and not least- all those signatures are GREAT but what you need is PRESS. Being on the morally correct side is not enough.... you can be right and still the loser.

all i am saying is Be Smart. Play by their rules- not yours.

Otherwise you lose.
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