Coronavirus

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by jfman

He could advise people on what he thinks is a good idea without changing any regulations.

I don’t think he will necessarily, but the MPs part doesn’t preclude him from painting a grim picture and telling people to use their judgement.

True, but how many will listen ?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

True, but how many will listen ?

Polling still shows significant support for going further than Plan B measures. Support that will only increase as hospitals overflow and case counts rise.

While I hold significant parts of the British public in contempt for a variety of reasons I have no reason to believe that vast majority of folk won’t act in their own self interest - to not catch Covid.

Economic growth was 0.1% in October suggesting that not as many were out there enjoying their new found freedoms are some may have been keen to portray.

[nffc]

How many would support further measures without reintroducing furlough and similar support, especially if they were then left unable to work, and not getting any financial support because they couldn't?


I think if they go much further then this situation would come up again. You'd then be looking presumably at furlough coming back, but the government can't keep on paying for this, shutting things down, reopening them again. Theresa May was spot on.


People will self-limit their actions if they don't feel it's safe. When it wasn't law to, yes a lot of people did remove masks in shops, but a fair few chose to keep them on, debatable how much that actually did achieve but even so, it shows people will still do more than they are required to.


I wouldn't have been too bothered before, but when going for something to eat now i'd rather sit away from other people/tables simply because keeping away from people is better, if it's crowded it probably isn't a good idea, masks, passports etc aside.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by jfman

Polling still shows significant support for going further than Plan B measures. Support that will only increase as hospitals overflow and case counts rise.

While I hold significant parts of the British public in contempt for a variety of reasons I have no reason to believe that vast majority of folk won’t act in their own self interest - to not catch Covid.

Economic growth was 0.1% in October suggesting that not as many were out there enjoying their new found freedoms are some may have been keen to portray.

I’m minded to agree, my concern is that people who have had the booster will go ‘I’m boostered, I’m fine, carry on as normal’

Also, we need to consider the fatigue that people are suffering from being under 15 months of restrictions.

I think we’re on a knife edge at the moment

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:48 ----------

Originally Posted by nffc

How many would support further measures without reintroducing furlough and similar support, especially if they were then left unable to work, and not getting any financial support because they couldn't?


I think if they go much further then this situation would come up again. You'd then be looking presumably at furlough coming back, but the government can't keep on paying for this, shutting things down, reopening them again. Theresa May was spot on.


People will self-limit their actions if they don't feel it's safe. When it wasn't law to, yes a lot of people did remove masks in shops, but a fair few chose to keep them on, debatable how much that actually did achieve but even so, it shows people will still do more than they are required to.


I wouldn't have been too bothered before, but when going for something to eat now i'd rather sit away from other people/tables simply because keeping away from people is better, if it's crowded it probably isn't a good idea, masks, passports etc aside.

In response to your point regarding furlough and paying for things

1. When did the U.K. government finish paying its war debt ?
2. How much debt have the conservatives added between 2010-2020

There is ALWAYS a way to pay for it…..

[nffc]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

----



In response to your point regarding furlough and paying for things

1. When did the U.K. government finish paying its war debt ?
2. How much debt have the conservatives added between 2010-2020

There is ALWAYS a way to pay for it…..

The government having the debt is a completely different scenario, though ultimately furlough either adds to the total debt as a country or leads to more taxation or spending cuts to try and balance it.


The scenario is more around families, people who work in the sectors which are likely to have to close or be restricted again if this goes further, in the absence of furlough support, these people will have the same to pay for, themselves and families to feed without the work and money coming in to pay for it, the companies won't be able to support them as they aren't able to trade and bring money in, if the government doesn't then will they be able to afford heating, electricity, food bills, etc etc.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

True, but how many will listen ?

I won’t. If 10 Downing Street can have a party in the midst of a lockdown, I can see my parents who are at the latter end of their years, I won’t have my time robbed from them by these schemers, not over something being considered just a bad cold. It’s a total overreaction. We cannot keep shutting down stuff every time there is a new variant, it will be perpetual lockdowns at every turn, we have to live with Covid like every other serious illness and ailment that can potentially kill you.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I’m minded to agree, my concern is that people who have had the booster will go ‘I’m boostered, I’m fine, carry on as normal’

Also, we need to consider the fatigue that people are suffering from being under 15 months of restrictions.

I think we’re on a knife edge at the moment

Again I think fatigue is something massively overstated by the press.

The vast, vast majority of people have barely been impacted by restrictions since so-called Freedom Day (July) and when pressed many haven’t been directly affected since the restrictions on households mixing ended before that.

People like to have a moan but once you scratch the surface there’s usually very little substance to it.

For the work from home brigade there’s massive upside to prolonged restrictions, saving on fuel and other commuting costs. Plus extra time to spend with children, etc.

Originally Posted by Mick

I won’t. If 10 Downing Street can have a party in the midst of a lockdown, I can see my parents who are at the latter end of their years, I won’t have my time robbed from them by these schemers, not over something being considered just a bad cold. It’s a total overreaction. We cannot keep shutting down stuff every time there is a new variant, it will be perpetual lockdowns at every turn, we have to live with Covid like every other serious illness and ailment that can potentially kill you.

One thing they have to address is the capacity of the NHS. I understand a pandemic is a rare event in modern times and a lot of nations struggled with this but the NHS feels the strain when a bad flu reason happens. The Government is also paying a price for not dealing with that early, they've left no capacity at all.

We need to at least be a bit better at dealing with increased demand whilst maintaining a regular service for routine medical care.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

The government having the debt is a completely different scenario, though ultimately furlough either adds to the total debt as a country or leads to more taxation or spending cuts to try and balance it.[

The scenario is more around families, people who work in the sectors which are likely to have to close or be restricted again if this goes further, in the absence of furlough support, these people will have the same to pay for, themselves and families to feed without the work and money coming in to pay for it, the companies won't be able to support them as they aren't able to trade and bring money in, if the government doesn't then will they be able to afford heating, electricity, food bills, etc etc.

There’s no plan to pay the existing debt, there’s just borrowing and eroding it with inflation.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nffc

The government having the debt is a completely different scenario, though ultimately furlough either adds to the total debt as a country or leads to more taxation or spending cuts to try and balance it.


The scenario is more around families, people who work in the sectors which are likely to have to close or be restricted again if this goes further, in the absence of furlough support, these people will have the same to pay for, themselves and families to feed without the work and money coming in to pay for it, the companies won't be able to support them as they aren't able to trade and bring money in, if the government doesn't then will they be able to afford heating, electricity, food bills, etc etc.

The government if required can find money to provide additional support in the way of furlough it is that simple

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Damien

One thing they have to address is the capacity of the NHS. I understand a pandemic is a rare event in modern times and a lot of nations struggled with this but the NHS feels the strain when a bad flu reason happens. The Government is also paying a price for not dealing with that early, they've left no capacity at all.

We need to at least be a bit better at dealing with increased demand whilst maintaining a regular service for routine medical care.

This is true. And whilst I would expect that a fair amount of recharging of staff batteries happened, whilst Alpha cases and admissions had been brought under control by lockdown and vaccines, which at least reduced pressure on the hospitals with Delta, the NHS still has a fair amount of the "other" illnesses and issues to deal with, which were necessarily slowed down or put totally on hold in the worst times of the pandemic.


As you say the Covid pressures on the NHS just happen most years and if it's not covid happen with things like flu, norovirus, etc etc.


The argument that the NHS can't cope is dependent on two things; an increase in patients needing care (due to them having the virus itself, or having care needs which were delayed due to the virus affecting capacity), and the capacity in the NHS itself. Lockdown only really helps with the number of people having the virus and only ever slows it down anyway. If the NHS needs funding to increase capacity then this should ultimately be something the government should be focusing its energy on. Not restricting a population, who in the main are unlikely to need critical care due to this virus, and who are in the main trying to do the right thing with complying with never-changing restrictions and getting themselves vaccinated.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

I’m sticking to my view thanks. I work on frontline. I see for myself how things are and when I see double jabbed, even triple jabbed people, catch Covid with my own set of eyes, I don’t need statisticians or boffs, who’ve probably never set foot in a healthcare setting and got their hands dirty, to tell me what is what, or you.

Ah, that's cool, I thought you were saying that they were falsifying data which along with plagiarism and not following ethical principles are the deadly sins of the sciences.

I will go with the deep technical review of ~250,000 PCR tests over anecdotal experience but each to their own

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Damien

One thing they have to address is the capacity of the NHS. I understand a pandemic is a rare event in modern times and a lot of nations struggled with this but the NHS feels the strain when a bad flu reason happens. The Government is also paying a price for not dealing with that early, they've left no capacity at all.

We need to at least be a bit better at dealing with increased demand whilst maintaining a regular service for routine medical care.

Quite agree, if we're going to learn to live with Covid (which ultimately we do have to do) We have to ensure that we have sufficient resources in place to be able to support what living with Covid looks like.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

One thing they have to address is the capacity of the NHS. I understand a pandemic is a rare event in modern times and a lot of nations struggled with this but the NHS feels the strain when a bad flu reason happens. The Government is also paying a price for not dealing with that early, they've left no capacity at all.

We need to at least be a bit better at dealing with increased demand whilst maintaining a regular service for routine medical care.

They've had near two years to increase capacity in the NHS and obviously failed.

They're a shambles and the nation is sick and tired of that buffoon wheeling himself out to address the nation, flanked by tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber.

The nation is crying out for anyone, I mean anyone, politically competent to come forward because the leaders of all the parties in all the nations are useless.

[jfman]

78,610 new cases reported in the last 24 hours.