Football : The Scottish Football Thread

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Henkesghost

What a lot of absolute deluded nonsense

So when Rangers were derided for playing anti-football a few years back did you disagree?

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Derek

Are you having a laugh?

Rangers play defensively away in Europe and get slaughtered in the press for playing 'anti-football'. Celtic get run ragged round the pitch and park the bus in front of the goals and all of a sudden lemon is a tactical genius.
.

Only a non-football person or a Celtic hater could compare Rangers all out defence against the likes of Panathiniakos with the display of Neil Lennon's men against the team that is widely regarded as the best in the world.

It was the class of Barca that pushed Celtic back - not by adopting Uncle Walter tactics. Celtic began with 2 up front whereas the only offensive thing about Rangers in Europe was the behaviour of their bigotted fans.

---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

Was that not the rubbish spouted when Rangers were kicked out the league? That attendances would soar with a new competitiveness for European football each year.

How's that working out for them then?

---------- Post added at 06:57 ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 ----------


In their dreams. Funnily enough the actual attendance figures at games this year has been consistently 10k or so below the reported figure. Even for 3PM Saturday games not on TV they are lucky if Snake Mountain is half full.

Snake Mountain? Don't know where that is. The only snakes I'm aware of in Glasgow are those slithering over the corpse of your former club.

You haven't answered yet Deek? How many shares are you in for

Are you going by official Strathclyde Police figures? Chucky Green's wild estimates from the Bigotdome don't bear up to comparison with those

[Derek]

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

*snip*

Ah OK then. So defending like their lives depended on it is OK for celtic and their team of £25 million rated superstars but bad if its Rangers when reduced to 10 men.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

Are you going by official Strathclyde Police figures? Chucky Green's wild estimates from the Bigotdome don't bear up to comparison with those

Nope just going by my eyes. Most of the games I've seen from Ibrox are a glorious sea of red, white and blue whereas most of the games from the Glasgow City Council arena have the 'fans' going all out for halloween early dressed as green seats.

Anyway away from the good (Rangers), the bad (celtic) and the ugly (Lennon) it looks like Mad Vlad might have something else to worry about aside from checking down the back of the sofa for change to pay his players with and who is going to buy Tynecastle when Hearts fold.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...redirect=false

Hearts have been issued with a bill for £1.75m which HMRC claims is due in taxation for a batch of players on loan at Tynecastle from the Lithuanian club FBK Kaunas up to seven years ago

Oops. Still at least their recently announced share issue might cover the shortfall.

Hearts have launched a share issue seeking £1.79m from supporters in exchange for a 10% stake in the club; Tynecastle insiders are adamant the close proximity of that figure to the tax issue is purely coincidental.

[LondonRoad]

So Rangers only played with 10 men throughout Uncle Walter's reign.

Deluded or what.? Smith only played the one way, home or away. If he had the option to play a bonus player he'd have played 5-5-1.

It's beginning to get a bit boring to have to keep pointing out that your stats don't actually bear any resemblence to real facts....it's beginning to feel a bit like the "explaining debt to a hun" video.

Celtic did only have 26% possession (official UEFA stat - not the 10% quoted by you and some sections of the Scottish media), but anybody with half a football brain could see that the loss of Samaras contributed greatly to the lack of out ball.

So your new fascination with crowds doesn't extend to any actual factual evidence. Distort and deflect

Can you explain to me why the followers of this new club have this fascination for crowd figures?
I use the word followers because it's yet to be proven if there are supporters of this zombie club or it's just an excuse for a bigotted gathering on the south side of Glasgow every couple of weeks.
Your old club were the 2nd best supported club in Glasgow. Just because there's a bigotfest every couple of weeks and they only charge half a crown to get in doesn't make it a well supported team. The litmus test will be how much of the giro money goes to buying shares or not.

How much are you in for Deek?

I see you focus on Hearts predicament (do you see any irony?). Does it hurt when you read the positive news from the SPL?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20084786

[colin25]

I agree with Londonroad, trying to compare Ranger's anti-football with Celtic's defensive play is chalk and cheese.

Rangers were happy to keep 10 men behind the ball. Celtic attacked, albeit gave ball away too quickly to capitalise.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

So your new fascination with crowds doesn't extend to any actual factual evidence. Distort and deflect

Distort and deflect. Coming from a follower of celtic that takes irony to a new level.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

Can you explain to me why the followers of this new club have this fascination for crowd figures?

Possibly because the other SPL club followers were going out of their way to gloat over the predicament of Rangers saying the fans would fade away. Since then the crowds have stayed static and even improved on last year. Other clubs can't say the same.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

I use the word followers because it's yet to be proven if there are supporters of this zombie club or it's just an excuse for a bigotted gathering on the south side of Glasgow every couple of weeks.

Ah the usual. Can't win an argument so resort to petty slurs.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

How much are you in for Deek?

None of your business. Just like I'm not interested in how many shares you have from any of celtics many share issues over the years.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

I see you focus on Hearts predicament (do you see any irony?). Does it hurt when you read the positive news from the SPL?

Whenever there is any positive news I'll let you know.

Still with hearts circling the drain I hope there is the same witch hunt against them.

Living outwith their means? - Check.
Using tax avoidance schemes which HMRC say are illegal? - Check.
Allegedly having players incorrectly registered? - Check.

Seems they should be on their way to SPL3 in the name of sporting integrity.

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------

Originally Posted by colin25

I agree with Londonroad, trying to compare Ranger's anti-football with Celtic's defensive play is chalk and cheese.

Whatever. I agree with the Rayo Vallecano coach.

"I could use the same approach as Celtic, but personally I would be too ashamed to look fans in the eye," Jemez said.

[LondonRoad]

Poor poor hurting Derek.

Petty slurs The slurs were started by you and you're correct I shouldn't have lowered myself to your level. Have a look through some of your posts when you refer to Celtic and you might realise that you're the champ at petty slurs. You could get another star on your shirt for that

It matters not to me what you say about our stadium, our team or whether our manager is ugly or not.

Your club is dead because you allowed it to die. Even when the truth is readily available you have still tried to defend Murray and put all the blame on Whyte. Only Sevco fans can't see that they're still being fleeced.... by the current owners, by the Scottish Media and by the football authorities.

If Hearts tick all the boxes you claim then they should face the consequences.

There was no witchhunt. Scottish football fans only wanted justice. It's ironic that Sevco fans are paranoid about what happened to their former club. You seem to fail to understand that the consequences should have been that you ceased to exist. That's what liquidation means. There should be no senior football, the new club should be starting at a non-league level and working it's way up. You were given a helping hand. The SPL and The SFA put out every scare story possible to warn the football public about armageddon. There was no demotion of your club to SFL3. The licence ceased to exist. Every rule possible was twisted so that you could apply to join the SFL. They even tried their best to shoehorn you into the top level of the SFL but fan power put paid that too.

The message that you fail to comprehend is that armageddon is prefarable to distorting the rules to favour one club. Sporting integrity is paramount to any competition.

You should have let your club die with dignity.

[colin25]

Once again concur with Londonroad.

If hearts broke the rules they should get punished.

But the bitternness coming from Derek is not about justice, but striven from a feeling of injustice. The "how dare they punish Rangers" syndrome.

Lashing out everywhere, because Rangers got their due punishment for cheating, is just sad.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by colin25

But the bitternness coming from Derek is not about justice, but striven from a feeling of injustice. The "how dare they punish Rangers" syndrome.

Lashing out everywhere, because Rangers got their due punishment for cheating, is just sad.

Wrong once again. Rangers have been punished, and I have no problem with that, for their 'crimes'

What I do have an issue with is the vindictiveness shown to them and the intention to hammer them for everything, regardless of its rights and wrongs and the way rules are made up on the fly to suit whatever, or whoevers, agenda.

Yes Rangers used EBT's but so did at least one other club. At least Rangers declared their use every year. Surely if there was a problem this should have been spotted after one year and not just waved through until 10 years down the line.

What happens? Rangers get a punishment decided upon and then a kangaroo court convened to justify the punishment where the other club get told their use was OK and no investigation is needed. Maybe they were just living up to their charitable history by giving a player a big chunk of money not declared after he had stopped playing for them.

Forgive me for laughing when a bunch of other clubs circle the drain despite their protests that "we don't need Rangers" and look forward to them receiving the exact same punishment for Rangers in the name of 'sporting integrity'

[colin25]

Originally Posted by Derek

Yes Rangers used EBT's but so did at least one other club. At least Rangers declared their use every year. Surely if there was a problem this should have been spotted after one year and not just waved through until 10 years down the line.

As said many times in this thread. Using EBT's is ok, illegally using them, a no no.

Rangers, were on the "no no" side, and were stupid at it.

[LondonRoad]

Let’s see if we can remove some of the delusions surrounding this and burst some of the myths. The truth is readily available if you really want to know it.

EBTs are perfectly legal when they are properly used. The way that they were used can be divided 3 ways in terms of how they were utilised by Rangers.

1. The correct way. A discretionary, non contractual payment. This may have been how some of the Rangers EBTs were utilised, e.g. Sir Minty creamed off £6M to himself.

2. The pay off EBT. Used to buy out a players contract. Deemed by HMRC to be liable for tax. There is no side letter or second contract because it’s used to terminate the contract. This is the type of EBT set up for Billy Dodds and Junhino.
Celtic, on the advice of HMRC, subsequently paid the tax which is why they don’t have a case to answer. Junhino wasn’t paid any more than was stipulated in the original contract submitted to the authorities. Again, Move along, nothing to see there.

3. The contractual EBT. Players had side letters, aka second contracts, promising them EBT payments as part of their football duties. This misuse of the scheme is not only tax evasion but breaks every football rule on registering players. The consequence of fielding improperly registered players is the automatic awarding of the match 3-0 to the opposition. Note that this is a consequence, not a punishment.

In case the use of the names Celtic and Rangers is fogging the issue for you, let’s compare two Scottish teams in a parallel universe:

Perth City and Perth United are deadly rivals, both have similar sized crowds and sponsorship deals, etc. Perth United and Perth City are both keen to sign Joe Smith, Perth City offer 10K a week because anything more would break their budget. He signs for Perth United and the player is registered as a United player on a salary of £8K a week.

It later transpires that Joe Smith had an EBT that paid him £3K a week. Perth United can only afford this because they don’t have to pay tax, employers NI etc on the additional income.

Now, that’s unfair to all the other teams in any competition that Perth Utd are entered into.

Not paying tax is also unfair on all the Government departments who have had their budgets cut, and by extension unfair on all the users of those services: NHS patients, Frontline soldiers, social services. I’ve even heard that some police departments have suffered

You’re correct that the transfer embargo was invented specifically to deal with you. You do realise that the alternative to that was a total ban. You should be grateful.

If Minty and Cardigan had imposed their own transfer ban 5 years ago you could have almost wiped out the tax you owed at that time. You’d still be the same club in the wonderfully atmospheric SPL instead of the zombie tribute band currently trading in the dungeons.

It’s really shameful to see a once proud Glasgow Club being stripped to the bones and being passed from one vulture to another. The very people who should be doing something are spending too much energy hoping that other teams fail. The obvious glee at every potential piece of bad news is as undignified as the way you allowed your club to die.

[Henkesghost]

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Henkesghost

I assume you are referring to the result last night? It must be the first time ICT have come to Glasgow and got a win in a cup game? Oh maybe not...

Maybe your just surprised that the best supported team in Glasgow, who have lost most of their team, lost to a team several divisions above them. I'm not, it was never going to be a walkover.

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------

Originally Posted by colin25

As said many times in this thread. Using EBT's is ok, illegally using them, a no no.

And yet when Rangers used them a list of punishments was drawn up, circulated and after that they decided to bring together a committee to justify the punishments.

When celtic used them (and quite possibly other clubs as well, despite their assertions otherwise!) there was no enquiry, no sanctions. Everything was brushed under the carpet quietly.

All the Rangers fans want it to be treated equally. That hasn't happened so far. Once hearts, motherwell and a few other clubs hit the wall hard we will see if they have the same level of bitterness directed at them.

[colin25]

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------

[/COLOR]

And yet when Rangers used them a list of punishments was drawn up, circulated and after that they decided to bring together a committee to justify the punishments.

When celtic used them (and quite possibly other clubs as well, despite their assertions otherwise!) there was no enquiry, no sanctions. Everything was brushed under the carpet quietly.

All the Rangers fans want it to be treated equally. That hasn't happened so far. Once hearts, motherwell and a few other clubs hit the wall hard we will see if they have the same level of bitterness directed at them.[/QUOTE]

You are missing the point. rangers were using EBT illegally. They were caught using them, and were blatantly using them illegally.

But EBT are ok..just not to supplement wages in a contractual way. At Rangers, it was part of salary, and they stated the expectation of it being used that way.

[LondonRoad]

Rangers fans want to be treated equally? In what way are Rangers fans being treated unfairly?

You stick your heads in the sand and try to blame everybody but the people who brought this shame on the club.

Not one person from Rangers has shown the slightest sign of contrition for years of cheating, tax evasion and probably fraud.

You'd rather push this paranoid "we are the people" attitude and show real bitterness to anybody who offers unbiased opinion based on the facts that are available for all..... if they want to know.

Society as a whole is a loser but I suppose some people gain from this... like police officers who get overtime to protect all these people being threatened by fans of this new club.

Newco, same colours, more shameful.