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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 29-05-2008, 23:41   #7546
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff View Post
[Big Snip]
So lets get started on the organising.
Hi Alexander Don't forget that you must coordinate with the Police these days, or you may end up in prison, sorry to put a damper on it!
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Old 29-05-2008, 23:50   #7547
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdadyslexia View Post
Hi Alexander Don't forget that you must coordinate with the Police these days, or you may end up in prison, sorry to put a damper on it!
Actually, I just spoke to someone about that (someone with a knowledge of these things) and apparently it is not required but it is seen as the polite thing to do. But don't worry I will be notifying the police in due course it was one of the first things I added to the todo list when I had the idea.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

OK Jason from UKFSN is confirmed as one of the guest speakers for the event.

Details on UKFSN can be found here.

Alexander Hanff
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:00   #7548
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Post Re: Emailing police

I'm having an email exchange with the police right now. They wish to know the exact section of the RIPA Act which I allged BT have broken. Can someone please quote the relevant passages?

They also won't accept Emma Sandersons admission on Channel 4 as evidence, since they claim it would not stand up in court. Does anyone have access to a statement by Emma Sanderson or otherwise some other kind of proof that the illegal trials took place?

Thanks!
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:02   #7549
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation View Post
I've just done some analysis for Rob on the webwise.bt.com contact page. It seems they were setting a Netegrity Siteminder Session ID cookie, and other cookies with Rob's email address and date of last visit.

That falls foul of PECR Regulations (regulation 6). Proud to say Dephormation's logging feature captured the cookies, and the redirections which would provide evidence to support any complaint.

BT have since changed their www.webwise.bt.com and webwise.bt.com contact pages. They now link to a form on the bt.custhelp.com site (run by IBM in the UK).

Which - of course - if you had the right legal advice in the first place a change wouldn't be necessary.

Has anyone heard or seen the ICO lately?
indeed

BTW that bt.custhelp.com url IP was interesting the other day, an internal NTL/VM cable network server ip infact.

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/me...ID=23586#23586
Posted: May 27, 2008 10:53 PM
"
"
R Jones wrote:
Following my complaints about the difficulty involved in finding out information about Webwise through the official BT sites such as BTYahoo Help pages and the search box on www.bt.com I was referred by the moderator to the bt.custhelp.com "Help and Support" pages, which include the Ask Emma facility [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Although a customer seeking information on Webwise from BT might not immediately think of the Support tab on www.bt.com it does return one hit when asked about webwise. (that's the site hosted by rightnowtech/NTLInernet - 81.110.142.41, Registrant: RightNow Technologies 40 Enterprise Blvd Bozeman, MT 59718 US Domain Name: RIGHTNOWTECH.COM)

Just for the record - that site is giving out either wrong or out of date information and does not appear to have been modified at all in the light of the developments of the last month.

snip, snip

Come on BT, the quality of this information is awful.
Aren't you embarrassed?"

david P said:
interesting, i happen to have access to an NTL/Virgin Media cable network....

the pings are appalling right now (due to STM DPI kit probably)but.
tracert 81.110.142.41
1private,
2 <********* >dont want to
3 <369 ms 208 ms 176 ms >give anything away
4 224 ms 339 ms 266 ms bagu-t3core-1b-ge-017-0.inet.ntl.com http://195.182.179.185
5 132 ms 215 ms 233 ms lee-bb-b-so-130-0.inet.ntl.com http://80.5.161.157
6 132 ms 120 ms 245 ms pop-bb-a-as1-0.inet.ntl.com http://213.105.175.130
7 277 ms 200 ms 197 ms popl-t3core-1a-so-000-0.inet.ntl.com http://213.105.174.233
8 47 ms 41 ms 37 ms popl-lam-2-pos000.inet.ntl.com http://62.255.81.42
9 356 ms 259 ms 302 ms 62.255.94.54
10 223 ms 214 ms 20 ms vipuk01.rightnowtech.com http://81.110.142.41

Trace complete.

and this is also very interesting, so many companys custhelp services dependant on a single NTL/VM IP address staying up if nothing else....

the NTL hardware is suprisingly good at staying up, i just hope the peered gateways are far better at latency than the direct internal NTL/VM home customers are getting ATM from the Baguley NW headend [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/we...on-web-server/
Remote Address :81.110.142.41
Found 131 domains hosted on the same web server as 81.110.142.41.

airtours.custhelp.com
aqa-examiners.custhelp.com
aqa-examsofficers.custhelp.com
aqa-metrics.custhelp.com
aqa-teachers.custhelp.com
asknet-de.custhelp.com
asknet-en.custhelp.com
athome.custhelp.com
bango.custhelp.com
basingstokeanddeane.custhelp.com
bathspa.custhelp.com
bbc-mca.custhelp.com
bca.custhelp.com
bogo.custhelp.com
bogous.custhelp.com
boylesports.custhelp.com
bt.custhelp.com
btbusiness-preview.custhelp.com
btbusiness.custhelp.com
btfleet.custhelp.com
btsupport.custhelp.com
btvoip.custhelp.com
btybb.custhelp.com
btydialup.custhelp.com
callmobile.custhelp.com
carrentals.custhelp.com
carrick.custhelp.com
cartesis.custhelp.com
ceridian-metrics.custhelp.com
ceridian.custhelp.com
ceridianuk.custhelp.com
charitycommission.custhelp.com
cm-flintshire.custhelp.com
cm-gwynedd.custhelp.com
comet.custhelp.com
congstar.custhelp.com
cornwall-metrics.custhelp.com
cornwall.custhelp.com
cumbria.custhelp.com
cusn.custhelp.com
de-bango.custhelp.com
denbighshire-en.custhelp.com
digidesign.custhelp.com
digitalmaidstone-metrics.custhelp.com
digitalmaidstone.custhelp.com
easycar.custhelp.com
ebay-de.custhelp.com
ebay-it.custhelp.com
ebay-uk.custhelp.com
edexcelexperts.custhelp.com
equilon.custhelp.com
eretail.custhelp.com
eretail2.custhelp.com
est.custhelp.com
flintshire-en.custhelp.com
flythomascook.custhelp.com
freedomdirect.custhelp.com
g4s-internal.custhelp.com
gps-nav.custhelp.com
gwynedd-en.custhelp.com
holidayautos.custhelp.com
imnetfr.custhelp.com
infoco-en.custhelp.com
innocentdrinks.custhelp.com
kabeldeutschland.custhelp.com
kaccess.custhelp.com
kerrier-dc.custhelp.com
kiddicare.custhelp.com
lastminute-france-french.custhelp.com
lastminute-italy-italian.custhelp.com
lastminute-spain-spanish.custhelp.com
lastminute-uk-english.custhelp.com
leicestershire.custhelp.com
marktplaats.custhelp.com
marktplaats4.custhelp.com
moj.custhelp.com
mojdg.custhelp.com
monster-uken.custhelp.com
mycashbackclaim.custhelp.com
mytravel.custhelp.com
naa.custhelp.com
nectarjaal2.custhelp.com
nepic.custhelp.com
ns.custhelp.com
o2online.custhelp.com
onlinesupport.nildram.net
optimal-se.custhelp.com
optimal-se2.custhelp.com
paddypower2.custhelp.com
photobox-en.custhelp.com
photobox-fr.custhelp.com
pioneer-customerrelations.custhelp.com
pioneer.custhelp.com
qca.custhelp.com
resfeber-denmark-danish.custhelp.com
resfeber-norway-norwegian.custhelp.com
resfeber-sweden-swedish.custhelp.com
rtcnorth.custhelp.com
sabmiller.custhelp.com
sedo-de.custhelp.com
sedo-de1.custhelp.com
sedo-fr1.custhelp.com
sedo-int.custhelp.com
sedo-int1.custhelp.com
sedo-us.custhelp.com
sedo-us1.custhelp.com
service.transavia.com
solid-state-logic-en.custhelp.com
stoke.custhelp.com
sunrise.custhelp.com
support.freedom2surf.net
support.streamserve.com
support.take2games.com
tomtom-uk.custhelp.com
travelocity-india-english.custhelp.com
tsn.custhelp.com
tss.custhelp.com
uk-tiscali.custhelp.com
validis.custhelp.com
versatel.custhelp.com
virginatlantic.custhelp.com
voip.nildram.net
wag-cy.custhelp.com
wag-en.custhelp.com
warhammeronline.custhelp.com
www.123-support.co.uk
www.btsupport.net
www.nildram.net
www.webfusion-support.co.uk
www.webfusion-support.com
zuji-apac-english.custhelp.com

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Old 30-05-2008, 00:07   #7550
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

OK, Alex, I've added your 'Press Release' to the Phormwatch website.

Keep up the good work.
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:18   #7551
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Re: Emailing police

Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch View Post
I'm having an email exchange with the police right now. They wish to know the exact section of the RIPA Act which I allged BT have broken. Can someone please quote the relevant passages?

They also won't accept Emma Sandersons admission on Channel 4 as evidence, since they claim it would not stand up in court. Does anyone have access to a statement by Emma Sanderson or otherwise some other kind of proof that the illegal trials took place?

Thanks!
Your best bet is probably referring the Police to the legislation referenced by FIPR, and perhaps also drawing their attention to the opinion of FIPR.

FIPR concluded that there was;
  • interception of communications, an offence contrary to section 1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000
  • fraud, an offence contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006
  • unlawful processing of sensitive personal data, contrary to the Data Protection Act 1998

You could also mention the criminal liability under paragraph 107 and 110 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (given that BT Directors must have been aware they were copying material marked with copyright by owners who have the *exclusive right* to distribute copies).

To quote "UK Intellectual Property Office";
"Copyright applies to computing and the internet in the same way as material in other media. For example, any photographs you place on the internet will be protected in the same way as other artistic works; any original written work will be protected as a literary work, and so on."
Is this IPCC you're in dialog with, or the Police?

Why wouldn't Emma Sandersons TV confession stand up in court? What could be a more flagrant admission? Seems Police are absolutely determined to ignore this if they possibly can, and we mustn't let them.

PS Sorry Alexander. This is your turf You can add something too I bet. Computer Misuse Act etc.
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:27   #7552
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Re: Emailing police

Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch View Post
I'm having an email exchange with the police right now. They wish to know the exact section of the RIPA Act which I allged BT have broken. Can someone please quote the relevant passages?

They also won't accept Emma Sandersons admission on Channel 4 as evidence, since they claim it would not stand up in court. Does anyone have access to a statement by Emma Sanderson or otherwise some other kind of proof that the illegal trials took place?

Thanks!
look at the register, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_roundup/, if not alex might be able to get some info from chris williams at the register
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:28   #7553
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch View Post
OK, Alex, I've added your 'Press Release' to the Phormwatch website.

Keep up the good work.
And to the http://www.inphormationdesk.org home page just after "What you can do".
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:35   #7554
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
They also won't accept Emma Sandersons admission on Channel 4 as evidence, since they claim it would not stand up in court.
Oh yeah, because standing up and admitting to doing something on national television and across the national media is not actually any kind of proof that you did it.

I agree with Dephormation here - it's quite clear that the police don't want to investigate this, possibly because it won't fill quotas or some such.
It'll be nice when the police realise that we don't part with our hard-earned through hefty taxes so they can investigate things that they want to, but things that the public want them to.
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:42   #7555
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Re: Emailing police

Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch View Post
I'm having an email exchange with the police right now. They wish to know the exact section of the RIPA Act which I allged BT have broken. Can someone please quote the relevant passages?

They also won't accept Emma Sandersons admission on Channel 4 as evidence, since they claim it would not stand up in court. Does anyone have access to a statement by Emma Sanderson or otherwise some other kind of proof that the illegal trials took place?

Thanks!
would some email exchanges do? Like a paragraph that allegedly said: (hypothetically speaking)

............... (rest sent in private message)
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:54   #7556
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

BT CUSTOMERS BEWARE

Do not log into the BT site, then visit any Phorm/third party operated web site with a *.bt.com subdomain;

eg
webwise.bt.com
www.webwise.bt.com

BT.com seem to be using a Siteminder security system that sets one or more cookies in the bt.com domain (potentially including your email address, and a security credential which authenticates you to BT.com).

A third party able to impersonate your IP address may be able to access your account details using a copy of the same security credential (SMSESSION cookie) revealed by your browser. Cookies affected;
SMSESSION = (Netegrity site minder encrypted cookie)
A Phorm/third party web site may have access to your email address (even if you do not enter that email address into any contact forms). Cookies affected;
btcom.userName = (email address)
btcom.dateVisited = (date of visit)
If my analysis is correct (I'd appreciate independent confirmation by a BT subscriber with Netegrity Siteminder knowledge, or sufficient tech insight to confirm the presence and configuration of the cookies manually) this is a very serious privacy and security flaw.
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:57   #7557
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Re: Emailing police

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones View Post
would some email exchanges do? Like a paragraph that allegedly said: (hypothetically speaking)

............... (rest sent in private message)
Thank you all for the helpful info. I'm collating your posts/info and will again write to the police shortly.
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:59   #7558
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation View Post
BT CUSTOMERS BEWARE

Do not log into the BT site, then visit any Phorm/third party operated web site with a *.bt.com subdomain;

eg
webwise.bt.com
www.webwise.bt.com

BT.com seem to be using a Siteminder security system that sets one or more cookies in the bt.com domain (potentially including your email address, and a security credential which authenticates you to BT.com).

A third party able to impersonate your IP address may be able to access your account details using a copy of the same security credential (SMSESSION cookie) revealed by your browser. Cookies affected;
SMSESSION = (Netegrity site minder encrypted cookie)
A Phorm/third party web site may have access to your email address (even if you do not enter that email address into any contact forms). Cookies affected;
btcom.userName = (email address)
btcom.dateVisited = (date of visit)
If my analysis is correct (I'd appreciate independent confirmation by a BT subscriber with Netegrity Siteminder knowledge, or sufficient tech insight to confirm the presence and configuration of the cookies manually) this is a very serious privacy and security flaw.
I've referenced this post over on BT Beta forums.

My new tag when communicating with BT/Phorm

"We're watching you, watching us"
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Old 30-05-2008, 01:00   #7559
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I'll get the 16th July off work tomorrow, so people better show up

Also I'm a member of the Barbican so I get 15% off in Barbican cafés, restaurants and bars.
I guess I'll be buying myself a lot of food and beverages

More good news, http://www.donottrustwebwise.org has it's first win. I have a TalkTalk customer who is now looking for a new ISP. Amazing how these webs weave.
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Old 30-05-2008, 01:08   #7560
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Regarding the Police, perhaps we need to put together an 'information pack' which includes the appropriate legal sections, the various legislative answers (EU commision, Serial's reply, reply to the Earl of Northesk's question etc), which state that it is a Police responsibility. In short, everything the police would need to proceed.

We use this to make a mass complaint on the first day of the BT trials. (Maybe wait a day or so to try to get information about the ongoing trial?)

We complain about the BT trials in the past and that we have good reason to believe the crimes may be ongoing.

Also, if they fail to respond, given the responses from the various government bodies, we will complain to the IPCC.

Given the Phorm share price, they must be on to BT every hour to start the trial. BT legal bods must be pressing to delay it to try to cover as many issues as possible. We all know about the mistakes that BT make.

EDIT : Anyone know about the BT Unions stance on this? Would they have concerns that their members may be asked to break the law?
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