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Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
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Old 11-02-2019, 16:51   #256
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

The problem with your proposal is it takes away one of the advantages to a streamer: to cut out the middleman and retail direct to the end user.

I havenít seen the most up to date figures but around ten years ago the sum total paid by Sky to third party channels was less than £5 per month per subscriber. Thereís going to be little appetite from Sky to change that dynamic in their pricing structure to third parties for run of the mill tv series and some old movies.
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Old 11-02-2019, 17:01   #257
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
The problem with your proposal is it takes away one of the advantages to a streamer: to cut out the middleman and retail direct to the end user.

I havenít seen the most up to date figures but around ten years ago the sum total paid by Sky to third party channels was less than £5 per month per subscriber. Thereís going to be little appetite from Sky to change that dynamic in their pricing structure to third parties for run of the mill tv series and some old movies.
Well, clearly, if the rate offered is not worth it to the streaming service, then there wouldn't be a deal.

The fact of the matter is that Netflix is already on VM, Sky and BT; Starz Play is on VM; Hayu is on VM (not sure if it is on Sky or BT yet, but I think it is on Sky) and Amazon is on BT.

This would not be happening if the amount offered was not attractive to those streaming services. This will be the only way to watch TV eventually.
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Old 11-02-2019, 17:27   #258
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Those services aren’t being bundled though.
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Old 11-02-2019, 18:02   #259
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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Those services arenít being bundled though.
Well, imagine that VM was able to make all those streaming services easily available through their platform, which would give them access to about 4m customers. The advantage to these streaming services would be to be able to capture customers who would not have otherwise subscribed. Ok, some of them would have subscribed anyway, but when it is part of your package, you are far more likely to want to see what's there, aren't you?

It works for BT Sport.
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Old 11-02-2019, 18:24   #260
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

Well I’ve Amazon and Netflix apps on my smart TV, TV from Sky and Now TV apps on my PlayStation. I think the vast majority of those interested in such services can use/will have other devices to adequately do so by now.

I don’t see Virgin with the annual challenge of price rises running to hand out pounds per month per subscriber to a number of fledgling streaming services.

BT Sport (Setanta and ESPN before it) was unique situation where it could tangibly be demonstrated that Virgin subscribers were very unlikely to pay for an additional standalone sports channel so a wholesale deal suits both parties.

Are Virgin subscribers disproportionately less likely to have Netflix/Amazon Prime where the numbers make sense for a wholesale deal? I’m not convinced. If Virgin subscribers are equally as likely as the general population to have Netflix a wholesale deal would have to far exceed existing revenue that’d be lost.
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Old 11-02-2019, 18:30   #261
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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Well Iíve Amazon and Netflix apps on my smart TV, TV from Sky and Now TV apps on my PlayStation. I think the vast majority of those interested in such services can use/will have other devices to adequately do so by now.

I donít see Virgin with the annual challenge of price rises running to hand out pounds per month per subscriber to a number of fledgling streaming services.

BT Sport (Setanta and ESPN before it) was unique situation where it could tangibly be demonstrated that Virgin subscribers were very unlikely to pay for an additional standalone sports channel so a wholesale deal suits both parties.

Are Virgin subscribers disproportionately less likely to have Netflix/Amazon Prime where the numbers make sense for a wholesale deal? Iím not convinced. If Virgin subscribers are equally as likely as the general population to have Netflix a wholesale deal would have to far exceed existing revenue thatíd be lost.
It's exactly the same principle as works for our existing TV channels.

There are still very many VM households who do not have a Netflix subscription.
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Old 11-02-2019, 18:40   #262
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

If VM subscribers are no more/no less likely than the general population Netflix would get around 1.6m cancellations as a result of bundling with Virgin. Just to cover this cost Virgin would have to pay £150m a year, or around £3.20 per month per subscriber. There will be no third party provider on the VM or Sky networks on anything like that with the possible exception of BT Sport who bring hundreds of millions of pounds of sports content to the table.

The public figure during the Sky Basics dispute in 2007 was Sky demanding 90p per month for context.

Last edited by jfman; 11-02-2019 at 18:43.
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Old 11-02-2019, 19:56   #263
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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If VM subscribers are no more/no less likely than the general population Netflix would get around 1.6m cancellations as a result of bundling with Virgin. Just to cover this cost Virgin would have to pay £150m a year, or around £3.20 per month per subscriber. There will be no third party provider on the VM or Sky networks on anything like that with the possible exception of BT Sport who bring hundreds of millions of pounds of sports content to the table.

The public figure during the Sky Basics dispute in 2007 was Sky demanding 90p per month for context.
No, that's not how it would work! There would be a method of transferring customers. Netflix may not reduce their subscription rate - it may be that the subscription rate charged to Virgin is the same, but Virgin package it with another service that would be provided at a discount. Sky have done this by packaging Netflix with Sky Box Sets, and charging less for Sky Box Sets.

There are different models that can be used, but you get the idea. Hopefully.
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Old 11-02-2019, 20:09   #264
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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No, that's not how it would work! There would be a method of transferring customers. Netflix may not reduce their subscription rate - it may be that the subscription rate charged to Virgin is the same, but Virgin package it with another service that would be provided at a discount. Sky have done this by packaging Netflix with Sky Box Sets, and charging less for Sky Box Sets.

There are different models that can be used, but you get the idea. Hopefully.
So essentially you are proposing the streamers rely on Virgin/Sky subsidising them.

Thatíll be a short lived experiment overall. While Sky have bundled Netflix taking a £2 hit on the top package (box sets with Sky Q) thereís limited scope to do the same with Amazon and others on the same basis.

I hope the other models stand up better to scrutiny.
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Old 12-02-2019, 00:24   #265
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

The STV swap has half happened

At midnight STV & STV HD disappeared from the listing.

Crazy timing right in the middle of a programme when there is 4 hour of night screen from 1am

I’m sure STV HD will pop up again soon in its new home
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:58   #266
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
So essentially you are proposing the streamers rely on Virgin/Sky subsidising them.

Thatíll be a short lived experiment overall. While Sky have bundled Netflix taking a £2 hit on the top package (box sets with Sky Q) thereís limited scope to do the same with Amazon and others on the same basis.

I hope the other models stand up better to scrutiny.
No, but they can improve their income by having more subscribers. As I said, the principle has already been established with the bundling of channels at a cheaper price. To suggest that none of the streaming services are prepared to enter into wholesale deals is not a wise thing to say on here, really.

Incidentally, did you know that the Hayu app was 'free' to Full House and VIP subscribers? Just one example of what can be achieved.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:50   #267
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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The STV swap has half happened

At midnight STV & STV HD disappeared from the listing.

Crazy timing right in the middle of a programme when there is 4 hour of night screen from 1am

Iím sure STV HD will pop up again soon in its new home
Interested to know how this worked? Have planned recordings moved over as they did when the copies of Crime Investigation closed last week?
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:26   #268
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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Interested to know how this worked? Have planned recordings moved over as they did when the copies of Crime Investigation closed last week?
The changes to introduce the STV HD region codes happened 2 weeks ago (judging by the linked thread in the community forum), so this should just be a channel number swap:

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5...E/td-p/3923471
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:40   #269
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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No, but they can improve their income by having more subscribers. As I said, the principle has already been established with the bundling of channels at a cheaper price. To suggest that none of the streaming services are prepared to enter into wholesale deals is not a wise thing to say on here, really.

Incidentally, did you know that the Hayu app was 'free' to Full House and VIP subscribers? Just one example of what can be achieved.
So effectively, linear channels disappear and are replaced with a menu of streaming options. Don't see the point in that personally.

I think you underestimate the number of technophobes, like your wife, who just like to switch on the to and look at the EPG to see what is currently on.

It has reminded me of a friend who told me his father wouldn't even use the recording facilities on sky - he continued to use his vhs recorder because that was what he knew!

As I have said before, I don't believe the 'super fast broadband is just round the corner' propaganda - the vast majority of the country will still be waiting for it in 10-15 years time.
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Old 12-02-2019, 17:00   #270
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)

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So effectively, linear channels disappear and are replaced with a menu of streaming options. Don't see the point in that personally.

I think you underestimate the number of technophobes, like your wife, who just like to switch on the to and look at the EPG to see what is currently on.

It has reminded me of a friend who told me his father wouldn't even use the recording facilities on sky - he continued to use his vhs recorder because that was what he knew!

As I have said before, I don't believe the 'super fast broadband is just round the corner' propaganda - the vast majority of the country will still be waiting for it in 10-15 years time.
And yet it's the landscape that the BBC is planning to address as part of its vision for what happens following the next licence fee review.

15 or so years is a long time and much can happen in that time. You've only got to look at how TV has changed since the old analogue days, which was pretty recent. We didn't even have VOD in those days!

Most people in work currently do not have problems with new technology. A person who retires this year will be 80 in 15 years' time. Besides which, if I am right, and satellite and cable services of the future have all the main streaming services integrated, they will be pretty user friendly by 2035, which is the date I've suggested by when the linear channels will be no more.
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