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Old 24-01-2022, 11:06   #886
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
We have enough facts to condemn Johnson for lying.

In terms of the culture at No 10, "probably" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Any evidence?
No, we don’t. All we have are allegations.

As for the drinking culture, you can look this up for yourself. Here’s one article on it. I picked the publisher just for you!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...rs-and-alcohol
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Old 24-01-2022, 11:18   #887
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
No, we don’t. All we have are allegations.

As for the drinking culture, you can look this up for yourself. Here’s one article on it. I picked the publisher just for you!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2...rs-and-alcohol
We have more than allegations Old Boy. We know he attended on 20 May 2020 and we've seen the 100-person invite showing it to be a party.

Thanks for the link. However, that's stating that individual ministers turned to drink, not that they held lots of parties. Quoting from it
Quote:
Wilson himself drank furtively, pints and his pipe in public, brandy and cigars indoors. He had a drink before PMQs, which he hated – as most PMs do. Jim Callaghan is the exception: he gave it up during his premiership (1976-79).
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Old 24-01-2022, 13:49   #888
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
We have more than allegations Old Boy. We know he attended on 20 May 2020 and we've seen the 100-person invite showing it to be a party.
We do not yet know what BJ knew about that invitation, and we don’t yet know whether that invitation was withdrawn or modified after receiving comments from those to whom the invitation was sent.

You are jumping to conclusions. You only have a few days to wait - I’m sure you can contain yourself until then.
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Old 24-01-2022, 14:07   #889
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

Great - only a few days to find out if Johnson will decide to have himself investigated…
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Old 24-01-2022, 14:09   #890
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Great - only a few days to find out if Johnson will decide to have himself investigated…
If that was the case, Downing Street would have said so. And as to what we will see of the report and when is still unknown.
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Old 24-01-2022, 14:21   #891
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If that was the case, Downing Street would have said so. And as to what we will see of the report and when is still unknown.
From a previous post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Once again…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-600451

Quote:
Ms Gray has been asked to look at the nature and purpose of the gatherings, including who went to them "with reference to adherence to the guidance in place at the time".

It is an internal investigation rather than an independent inquiry. It was ordered by Mr Johnson, he set the terms of reference and Ms Gray - who is required to be impartial - will report back to him.
Quote:
Ms Gray's report is expected to give a factual account of what happened with reference to the guidance - this does not necessarily mean that she will say whether there have been breaches of it.

The terms of reference do not suggest that Ms Gray will decide whether laws have been broken.
Quote:
When it comes to the PM, Ms Gray may "touch on the role of the prime minister but it isn't [her] place to judge his behaviour", says Catherine Haddon, of the Institute for Government think tank.
Quote:
If there is evidence a minister has breached the Ministerial Code - such as potentially misleading parliament - it could be investigated by the prime minister's standards adviser Lord Geidt. Mr Johnson would need to give permission before any new inquiry was launched and he ultimately decides if any minister - including himself - has broken the code
Johnson, who set the terms of reference, and who will see the report first, will then decide if he’s done anything wrong, and if he wants to refer himself for further investigation, he could.

what has he done in the past that makes you think this might happen?
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Old 24-01-2022, 14:58   #892
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Great - only a few days to find out if Johnson will decide to have himself investigated…
Isn’t that what the inquiry is actually doing, Hugh? Or did you mean ‘decide on whether he should be subject to a disciplinary investigation’?

I think it will be apparent from Gray’s report on the nature of the ‘parties’, their purpose and whether BJ knew about them whether he’s guilty as charged.
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Old 24-01-2022, 16:19   #893
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

Starting to feel more and more that these are indeed the twilight days of the current regime.
Quote:
Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud

A Conservative minister in the House of Lords has resigned attacking the government's handling of fraudulent Covid business loans.

Lord Agnew of Oulton accused the Treasury of having "no interest in the consequences of fraud to our society".

Last year, the National Audit Office criticised the government for failing to put in measures to prevent people exploiting Covid schemes.

Lord Agnew said his departure was "not an attack on the prime minister".

The minister with responsibility for cross-government efficiency said "a combination of arrogance, indolence and ignorance" was "freezing the government machine".

"I hope that as a virtually unknown minister beyond this place giving up my career might prompt other to get behind this and sort it out," he said.

In a dramatic moment in the House of Lords, the Treasury minister read out his resignation speech in response to a question about loans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60117513

Last edited by 1andrew1; 24-01-2022 at 16:38.
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Old 24-01-2022, 16:22   #894
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Isn’t that what the inquiry is actually doing, Hugh? Or did you mean ‘decide on whether he should be subject to a disciplinary investigation’?

I think it will be apparent from Gray’s report on the nature of the ‘parties’, their purpose and whether BJ knew about them whether he’s guilty as charged.
From the post directly above yours...

Quote:
Ms Gray's report is expected to give a factual account of what happened with reference to the guidance - this does not necessarily mean that she will say whether there have been breaches of it.

The terms of reference do not suggest that Ms Gray will decide whether laws have been broken
.
Quote:
When it comes to the PM, Ms Gray may "touch on the role of the prime minister but it isn't [her] place to judge his behaviour", says Catherine Haddon, of the Institute for Government think tank.
Quote:
If there is evidence a minister has breached the Ministerial Code - such as potentially misleading parliament - it could be investigated by the prime minister's standards adviser Lord Geidt. Mr Johnson would need to give permission before any new inquiry was launched and he ultimately decides if any minister - including himself - has broken the code
Her terms of reference do not include (as has been stated repeatedly) deciding whether Johnson is guilty or not.

btw, what are 'parties'? Are they like the parties held in No.10 that Johnson apologised for, on the eve of Prince Philip's funeral, or are they like 'work meetings' with socialising and bring your own booze?
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Old 24-01-2022, 16:37   #895
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

One thing to underline - per the Dominic Raab interview I cited yesterday - it's not guaranteed how much of the report the general public will be, um, party to.
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Old 24-01-2022, 16:43   #896
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
From the post directly above yours...



Her terms of reference do not include (as has been stated repeatedly) deciding whether Johnson is guilty or not.

btw, what are 'parties'? Are they like the parties held in No.10 that Johnson apologised for, on the eve of Prince Philip's funeral, or are they like 'work meetings' with socialising and bring your own booze?
I know that, Hugh. But what the report will do is provide a factual account of what happened. That, surely, will enable us all to judge whether or not the rules were broken and the extent of the PM's culpability. I have always known that whether or not BJ will be disciplined is a separate issue that will not be covered by the inquiry.

I deliberately put that word 'parties' in inverted commas because there is confusion as to whether they could legitimately be regarded as work events or whether they were, in fact, parties. Having established that, we should at least be told which of these BJ knew about.

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Quote:
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One thing to underline - per the Dominic Raab interview I cited yesterday - it's not guaranteed how much of the report the general public will be, um, party to.
He said there would be sufficient information to enable the public and the House of Commons to come to a judgement.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Starting to feel more and more that these are indeed the twilight days of the current regime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60117513
Don't count your chickens, Andrew.
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Old 24-01-2022, 16:57   #897
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
He said there would be sufficient information to enable the public and the House of Commons to come to a judgement.
I'm somewhat more realistic - he would say that, wouldn't he?

Last edited by 1andrew1; 24-01-2022 at 17:05.
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Old 24-01-2022, 17:42   #898
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

I wonder if the Gray report will be as thorough as the Shameful Chakrabarti report was.
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Old 24-01-2022, 18:17   #899
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

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I wonder if the Gray report will be as thorough as the Shameful Chakrabarti report was.
Be wary if she becomes Baroness Gray soon after

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------

Another one: https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-24/...ws-understands
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Old 24-01-2022, 18:17   #900
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Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties

Being a Single white male, if the roles had been reversed, and I was sacked for my non-religious beliefs, This wouldn't even be a news story.

But lately, it seems non-whites can complain about anything and get heard (Even if it is called for)
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