UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[Pierre]

It will be interesting because we, and Europe probably, will be in a depression (not recession).

Home schooling won’t be issue as most of the parents will be unemployed.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Then let me correct your view of my perspective.

It seems to me that Remain supporting people see this through the lens of regret that economic matters trump sovereignty.

I'm sure there is economic downside to leaving the EU. The British public who voted for it know that. To them, sovereignty is the key point and a trust that the UK will build on its skills and abilities to rise above any economic downturn.

Your second paragraph defends the EU's position.

No Brit should be doing this.

I've just described the situation in plain and unemotional language, in response to your request.
By stating that something is not in one party's interests in the second paragraph is neither defending nor condemning one side or the other, it's an observation.
Although I've not defended any side's position, I believe every Brit is entitled to do so.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It will be interesting because we, and Europe probably, will be in a depression (not recession).

Home schooling won’t be issue as most of the parents will be unemployed.

Actually that's an excellent point.

We would walk away from them in roughly equal terms and we can independently plough our own furrow.

There's no advantage in being in the EU right now.



---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've just described the situation in plain and unemotional language, in response to your request.
By stating that something is not in one party's interests in the second paragraph is neither defending nor condemning one side or the other, it's an observation.
Although I've not defended any side's position, I believe every Brit is entitled to do so.

You're entirely missing the point. Your observations and thinking come from a Remain perspective, which is a completely passé notion.

That every Brit is entitled to argue in the way you are has nothing to do with what should be their duty to acknowledge the bleedin' obvious that the EU is bulklying us into relinquishing sovereignty back to them.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You're entirely missing the point. Your observations and thinking come from a Remain perspective, which is a completely passé notion.

That every Brit is entitled to argue in the way you are has nothing to do with what should be their duty to acknowledge the bleedin' obvious that the EU is bulklying us into relinquishing sovereignty back to them.

You asked me to explain the situation which I did.
You said that no Brit should be able to defend either side's position and I said that they could, although I have chosen not to.
Those are the facts.

Your next point - which I've paraphrased as: is the EU compelling the UK to relinquish its sovereignty?
The answer to this is of course not. The UK can choose not to strike a deal. I've explained why sovereignty might be impacted - it's a side-effect as oppose to the main intent.

To further confirm:
- The EU will use all its bargaining chips to try and strike a deal in its members' interests and not the UK's.
- The UK will use all its bargaining chips to try and strike a deal in its own interests and not the EU's.

Whether a player with a better hand is bullying a player with a weaker one - sorry Seph, that's life.

[Sephiroth]

We are going round in circles. My point in post #2958 has been completely proved.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We are going round in circles. My point in post #2958 has been completely proved.

#2959 has - let's agree on that.
I accept that I have failed in my objective to convince you that the EU does not have some dastardly plan to try and restrict our sovereignty for the sake of it and instead is just trying to ensure a level playing field for the single market.

Moving on, some interesting comments about Johnson's proposals.

David Henig, director of the UK trade policy project and a former trade negotiator, said: “[The UK is] looking for more than Canada, Korea or Japan in exchange for the same — or probably even less — in terms of level playing field provisions.”
..Talks between the two sides are deadlocked on the question of the level playing field, with Brussels insisting that if Britain wants privileged access to the single market after Brexit it must be prevented from undercutting the EU social and environmental model.
A separate dispute concerns EU demands for continued access to British fishing waters on similar terms to now, while London objects to any role for the European Court of Justice in enforcing any eventual deal.
...EU officials also say British attempts to agree mutual recognition deals for professional qualifications — for lawyers in particular — and for industrial products reflected London’s attempt to keep the same access to the single market.
“The British request to have British qualifications recognised by default, subject to terms and conditions, goes far beyond the EU-Japan deal, or the Ceta deal with Canada,” said Sam Lowe of the Centre for European Reform.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/134d5e8f-...8-897f7ca51326

[1andrew1]

More pressure on Johnson to step up and do a deal. With a chastised Cummings, there may be more of an opportunity to do so.

Japanese carmaker Nissan has warned that a no-deal Brexit could make its European business model unsustainable.
Nissan's European chairman, Gianluca de Ficchy, said if a 10% export tariff was introduced after the UK left the EU it would put its operations "in jeopardy".
This would be the case if the UK moved to World Trade Organization (WTO) rules after Brexit, he said.
He was speaking at Nissan's plant in Sunderland, where work on a new model of the Juke is due to start.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50000530

[nomadking]

How many EU-made cars does the EU sell in the UK? The tariffs work both ways.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How many EU-made cars does the EU sell in the UK? The tariffs work both ways.

The respective market sizes are somewhat different. 68m people UK v 445m EU.

[Carth]

Nissan are quite welcome to move all their production to Romania if they so wish, no skin off my nose if their quality reputation plunges further

Just more crap from manufacturers that want a sweet deal, hope Boris tells them to bugger off

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Carth

Nissan are quite welcome to move all their production to Romania if they so wish, no skin off my nose if their quality reputation plunges further

Just more crap from manufacturers that want a sweet deal, hope Boris tells them to bugger off

I'm guessing, like Boris, you don't live in the NE? Those that do and voted for Brexit, may sadly have to pause to reflect over the coming years...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm guessing, like Boris, you don't live in the NE? Those that do and voted for Brexit, may sadly have to pause to reflect over the coming years...

I hope I'm right here and not being too OB-ish, the Guvmin will find a way of sweetening Nissan if only to keep faith with their voters.

That said, CV might well reduce demand which may cause its own set of difficulties.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I hope I'm right here and not being too OB-ish, the Guvmin will find a way of sweetening Nissan if only to keep faith with their voters.

That said, CV might well reduce demand which may cause its own set of difficulties.

I really don't think they'll bother now the election is over.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm guessing, like Boris, you don't live in the NE? Those that do and voted for Brexit, may sadly have to pause to reflect over the coming years...

Not quite the NE, but near enough

Have another guess at this then, where do you think Nissan will move to . . . France, Germany, Italy, Slovenia? . . and how much of a 'financial package' will Countries be willing to throw at them under the present (and possibly future) economic uncertainties?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

Not quite the NE, but near enough

Have another guess at this then, where do you think Nissan will move to . . . France, Germany, Italy, Slovenia? . . and how much of a 'financial package' will Countries be willing to throw at them under the present (and possibly future) economic uncertainties?

Nissan is part of an alliance with Mitsubishi and Renault. They have recently agreed to head up specific markets: Renault will have Europe and Russia, Nissan China, the US and Japan and Mitsubishi south-east Asia.
So, if Sunderland is uneconomic then Nissan could export to the EU directly from Japan (no tariffs), get Renault to manufacture its models or withdraw from Europe altogether. Renault currently makes the Micra for Nissan.
I have considerable sympathy for the workers in Sunderland who were promised "the easiest deal in history".