Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Changes on the High Street

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Changes on the High Street
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 16-07-2020, 22:19   #496
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,604
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
And they can’t blame Covid, they plunged to that figure by December 2018. That’s absolutely shocking.
Just a leveraged buy-out whereby the purchaser puts up 10% of the cost of buying the existing shareholders out and the banks 90%. The cost of the debt ensures no corporation tax is due as the business is loss-making on paper.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 17-07-2020, 10:22   #497
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 32,659
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Just a leveraged buy-out whereby the purchaser puts up 10% of the cost of buying the existing shareholders out and the banks 90%. The cost of the debt ensures no corporation tax is due as the business is loss-making on paper.
Yup ... so the ‘owner’ of the business has become the owner almost entirely with someone else’s money, which sounds fine on paper because that’s what a mortgage is, however the level of debt racked up there was clearly unsustainable. A leveraged buyout is still supposed to leave a business able to trade, unless there’s a deliberate underhand plan in play for the directors to milk it dry and then collapse it. Not saying that happened here but it has been known to occur in similar scenarios.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 10:32   #498
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 34,925
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Changes on the High Street

And not forgetting, if it's a US company doing the LBO (even of a UK company), there's a huge tax benefit.

Quote:
Leveraged Buyout Tax Benefit

Leveraged buyouts create tax shields that, under the United States tax code, allow companies to deduct interest paid on debt as an expense, unlike dividends paid to equity shareholders, which cannot be expensed. For instance, a company that faces a large tax burden can benefit from increased debt financing because the interest is accounted for as an expense, which is tax deductible. Therefore, increasing interest expense results in a significantly lower tax obligation owed to the IRS.
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 10:45   #499
Carth
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 1,750
Carth has reached the bronze age
Carth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze ageCarth has reached the bronze age
Re: Changes on the High Street

Looks to me like the ones who can't see a scam are the banks . . . again
__________________
'The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it' ~ T. Pratchett
Carth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 10:56   #500
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 54,043
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Looks to me like the ones who can't see a scam are the banks . . . again
The question is how much have the banks learnt from the 2008 financial crisis? as l am not qualified to answer that question personally but l am sure someone more qualified will.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:06   #501
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,461
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Changes on the High Street

They don’t need to learn. Learning from mistakes is on the basis that there’s negative consequences. For many they get to extract money in the good times and leave the Government carrying the can in the bad.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 12:15   #502
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,604
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Yup ... so the ‘owner’ of the business has become the owner almost entirely with someone else’s money, which sounds fine on paper because that’s what a mortgage is, however the level of debt racked up there was clearly unsustainable. A leveraged buyout is still supposed to leave a business able to trade, unless there’s a deliberate underhand plan in play for the directors to milk it dry and then collapse it. Not saying that happened here but it has been known to occur in similar scenarios.
That level of debt is not necessarily unsustainable in normal trading conditions. However, when you've got monthly interest payments to make but no income to make them with then you're stuffed.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2020, 16:55   #503
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 11,280
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
The question is how much have the banks learnt from the 2008 financial crisis? as l am not qualified to answer that question personally but l am sure someone more qualified will.
I would imagine they still have the same idiots making the decisions
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 11:04   #504
heero_yuy
Perfect Soldier
 
heero_yuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 63
Services: VM 100M SH3 thingy in modem mode XL TV V6 Sony Bravia smart TV and M phone
Posts: 15,985
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Quote from Sky News:
Marks & Spencer (M&S) will serve notice this week of imminent plans for hundreds of job cuts as it becomes the latest prominent retailer to restructure its workforce in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

Sky News has learnt that M&S will begin announcing redundancy plans within days, joining the likes of the John Lewis Partnership, Boots, and Debenhams in what has rapidly become a bloodbath on Britain's high streets.

Sources said that several thousand jobs were expected to be lost as chief executive Steve Rowe accelerates an ongoing restructuring of the business during the coming months.
This is despite having taken government (our) money to bolster up jobs.
__________________
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Kushrenada
heero_yuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 11:15   #505
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb, V6 STB
Posts: 6,146
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
This is despite having taken government (our) money to bolster up jobs.
"Bolster up jobs", or was it to bolster up people's income?
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 12:04   #506
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 11,280
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
"Bolster up jobs", or was it to bolster up people's income?
An important part of the business support measures, provided by the government to help business during the economic crisis created by coronavirus pandemic, is the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (or ‘furlough leave’). Furlough leave is a temporary leave of absence for economic reasons and is designed to save jobs.
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 12:15   #507
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 8,562
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
And not forgetting, if it's a US company doing the LBO (even of a UK company), there's a huge tax benefit.
One of the reasons Virgin Media is so valuable to Liberty Global, and why the Vodafone deal was never done.

Virgin Media is heavily leveraged.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 12:26   #508
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb, V6 STB
Posts: 6,146
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
An important part of the business support measures, provided by the government to help business during the economic crisis created by coronavirus pandemic, is the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (or ‘furlough leave’). Furlough leave is a temporary leave of absence for economic reasons and is designed to save jobs.
The furlough scheme was an alternative to businesses making people redundant. Otherwise the businesses would've had to be paying out to staff without any money coming in. It was only aimed at people's wages, not any other business costs.
Link

Quote:
The government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (CJRS) has so far helped protect more than 9.3 million jobs through the pandemic, with employers claiming more than £25.5 billion to support wages.
Link

Quote:
More than nine million workers who are unable to do their job because of the coronavirus outbreak have had their wages paid by the government.
The furlough scheme was designed to help people put on leave because of the outbreak, and prevent mass redundancies.
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 12:29   #509
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 11,280
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The furlough scheme was an alternative to businesses making people redundant. Otherwise the businesses would've had to be paying out to staff without any money coming in. It was only aimed at people's wages, not any other business costs.
Link


Link
An important part of the business support measures, provided by the government to help business during the economic crisis created by coronavirus pandemic, is the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (or ‘furlough leave’). Furlough leave is a temporary leave of absence for economic reasons and is designed to save jobs.

N.B This may not be true for employees of tin foil hat manufacturers.
__________________
links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion
i don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2020, 13:12   #510
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,604
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal1andrew1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Changes on the High Street

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
And not forgetting, if it's a US company doing the LBO (even of a UK company), there's a huge tax benefit.
It doesn't need to be just a US company, interest payments are a cost which reduce a company's profits upon which corporation tax is paid (or not).

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
This is despite having taken government (our) money to bolster up jobs.
If they took it in poor faith then I think that criticism might be justifiable, but there's nothing to suggest they did.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:44.


Server: curium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.