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Changes on the High Street
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Old 14-07-2020, 17:55   #466
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I'm glad I don't live in your 'reality', jfman.

So you are saying that if I own a building that I am renting out as a shop, some geezer can just take it off me because you say I am not contributing anything as 'it's just a property'.

That's not how it works in my reality, and I'm absolutely certain that I live in the real world. You come out with the craziest things.
Where did I say someone could just take it off you? All Iím saying if youíre making income from capital and not work, being a super-entrepreneur, or some other measure thatís a net gain to GDP.

Essentially extracting money from those who do provide a benefit. Like a parasite.
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Old 14-07-2020, 18:06   #467
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Where did I say someone could just take it off you? All Iím saying if youíre making income from capital and not work, being a super-entrepreneur, or some other measure thatís a net gain to GDP.

Essentially extracting money from those who do provide a benefit. Like a parasite.
So where is all the money that is lent out in personal loans, business loans, mortgages, and indeed government borrowing supposed to come from? How else can pension funds operate? The businesses wouldn't be able to get started in the first place.


Even Cuba has had to allow capitalist businesses.
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Old 14-07-2020, 18:10   #468
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So where is all the money that is lent out in personal loans, business loans, mortgages, and indeed government borrowing supposed to come from? How else can pension funds operate? The businesses wouldn't be able to get started in the first place.

Even Cuba has had to allow capitalist businesses.
Mortgages are created out of thin air. They simply open a debit balance, secured against the asset, and charge you interest as you pay it back.
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Old 14-07-2020, 18:22   #469
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Mortgages are created out of thin air. They simply open a debit balance, secured against the asset, and charge you interest as you pay it back.
Actual real money is handed over to the seller of the property. Where does that come from?
Link

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Mortgage lenders lend directly from their own funds, so they are different from brokers who make money acting as intermediaries between borrowers and lenders. Lenders may use depositor's funds or they may borrow money from larger banks at a preferred interest rate to fund loans.

Link
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A government bond is a type of debt-based investment, where you loan money to a government in return for an agreed rate of interest. Governments use them to raise funds that can be spent on new projects or infrastructure, and investors can use them to get a set return paid at regular intervals

Last edited by nomadking; 14-07-2020 at 18:25.
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Old 14-07-2020, 18:33   #470
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Actual real money is handed over to the seller of the property. Where does that come from?
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Do you think there are savings deposits to cover all borrowing? Or course there isnít. Itís frankly naive to think so.
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Old 14-07-2020, 21:42   #471
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Mortgages are created out of thin air. They simply open a debit balance, secured against the asset, and charge you interest as you pay it back.
LOL.

(I really hope you dont actually believe that).
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Old 14-07-2020, 21:44   #472
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Do you think there are savings deposits to cover all borrowing? Or course there isnít. Itís frankly naive to think so.
It's the multiplier effect which is how banks work. £1 in deposits for every £10 lent. Hence the need to bail out the banks in the Global Financial Crisis.

A good move here - the top floors of an upmarket shopping centre in Liverpool are bieng converted to a campus for a music college, co-owned by Robbie Williams.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...music-18594969
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:21   #473
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
It's the multiplier effect which is how banks work. £1 in deposits for every £10 lent. Hence the need to bail out the banks in the Global Financial Crisis.

A good move here - the top floors of an upmarket shopping centre in Liverpool are bieng converted to a campus for a music college, co-owned by Robbie Williams.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...music-18594969
A building society such as Northern Rock, may have lent out money, but then they SOLD that mortgage. The buying company now owns the debt, as if they were the ones that issued the mortgage in the first place, and NR has money to lend out. In essence they were acting more as a self-appointed and self-serving mortgage broker. The first mortgage won't be on NR's accounts. From their point of view, the mortgage debt has been paid. You can only count the bank(etc)s current outstanding loans, not all the past ones added up together. The money for the 2nd mortgage has come from the buyer of the 1st. In turn the buyer has had to raise the money from somewhere. That will have come from investors or loans.



With no "parasites" prepared to buy NRs mortgages, NR was stuck. The banks weren't bailed out, it was the banking system that was. Confidence for depositors had to be propped up. Without the money from the depositors, loans of various sorts, couldn't happen.
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:27   #474
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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LOL.

(I really hope you dont actually believe that).
Itís much closer to that than the notion the bank holds savings which it lends out.

The days of a George Bailey down the Buildings and Loans went out in the 70s.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
A building society such as Northern Rock, may have lent out money, but then they SOLD that mortgage. The buying company now owns the debt, as if they were the ones that issued the mortgage in the first place, and NR has money to lend out. In essence they were acting more as a self-appointed and self-serving mortgage broker. The first mortgage won't be on NR's accounts. From their point of view, the mortgage debt has been paid. You can only count the bank(etc)s current outstanding loans, not all the past ones added up together. The money for the 2nd mortgage has come from the buyer of the 1st. In turn the buyer has had to raise the money from somewhere. That will have come from investors or loans.

With no "parasites" prepared to buy NRs mortgages, NR was stuck. The banks weren't bailed out, it was the banking system that was. Confidence for depositors had to be propped up. Without the money from the depositors, loans of various sorts, couldn't happen.
Itís almost like a system designed by parasites for parasites. Leaving the state to carry the can when the house of cards comes tumbling down.
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:39   #475
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
A building society such as Northern Rock, may have lent out money, but then they SOLD that mortgage. The buying company now owns the debt, as if they were the ones that issued the mortgage in the first place, and NR has money to lend out. In essence they were acting more as a self-appointed and self-serving mortgage broker. The first mortgage won't be on NR's accounts. From their point of view, the mortgage debt has been paid. You can only count the bank(etc)s current outstanding loans, not all the past ones added up together. The money for the 2nd mortgage has come from the buyer of the 1st. In turn the buyer has had to raise the money from somewhere. That will have come from investors or loans.

With no "parasites" prepared to buy NRs mortgages, NR was stuck. The banks weren't bailed out, it was the banking system that was. Confidence for depositors had to be propped up. Without the money from the depositors, loans of various sorts, couldn't happen.
This is why banking is so heavily regulated otherwise banks could keep on lending until the cows came home. Hence deposits v loans ratios etc and why Royal Bank of Scotland was bailed out and Woolworths wasn't.
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:40   #476
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Re: Changes on the High Street

I think I'm on my third broker since getting my initial mortgage with Northern Rock . . . couldn't tell you the name of them without looking at the letters . . couldn't even tell you the names of the previous either
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:42   #477
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Itís much closer to that than the notion the bank holds savings which it lends out.

The days of a George Bailey down the Buildings and Loans went out in the 70s.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------



Itís almost like a system designed by parasites for parasites. Leaving the state to carry the can when the house of cards comes tumbling down.
Or were the "parasites" the ones that took out mortgages they couldn't afford to pay back, in the expectation of making easy money from house price increases when selling the house. It was people not paying back the loans that was behind the crash.
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:51   #478
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Or were the "parasites" the ones that took out mortgages they couldn't afford to pay back, in the expectation of making easy money from house price increases when selling the house. It was people not paying back the loans that was behind the crash.
Definitely not those who gave mortgages to people who didnít have the earnings or capital to repay them - youíd think they had a "duty of care" or something...
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Old 14-07-2020, 22:55   #479
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
This is why banking is so heavily regulated otherwise banks could keep on lending until the cows came home. Hence deposits v loans ratios etc and why Royal Bank of Scotland was bailed out and Woolworths wasn't.
NRs problem wasn't deposit-loan ratio. When they sold on the loan, it was not that different to the mortgagee repaying the loan, because they sold the house or took out a mortgage elsewhere. That mortgage was no longer on their books. If a loan has been repaid, it no longer figures in any deposit-loan ratio.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

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Definitely not those who gave mortgages to people who didnít have the earnings or capital to repay them - youíd think they had a "duty of care" or something...
People lie about their outgoings, and the capital was the property, especially with houses prices increasing. In the US, mortgage brokers were falsifying documents in order to "earn" commission.
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Old 15-07-2020, 08:06   #480
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Re: Changes on the High Street

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Or were the "parasites" the ones that took out mortgages they couldn't afford to pay back, in the expectation of making easy money from house price increases when selling the house. It was people not paying back the loans that was behind the crash.
A false economy - asset prices would have rose for wherever they planned to move to.

However your opinion is clear - itís alright for the rich to walk away leaving the state hold the can but people trying to buy their own homes are parasites.

Despicable, quite frankly.
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