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Will Scotland Leave the UK?
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Old 25-04-2019, 19:31   #2881
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
In your right wing opinion, an ideology that Scotland broadly rejects.

Surely that freedom to leave and take back control is worth voting for, even if there's an economic cost? (and that's a big if). At least - that's the argument in favour of Brexit.
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.
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Old 25-04-2019, 20:13   #2882
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.
Depends on your definition of ‘over-tax".

When companies off-shore Holding Companies to avoid paying Corporation Tax, or use complex barely legal tax avoidance schemes (knowing even if they have to pay, they will have held on to the capital for a few years), remedying those situations is not "over-taxing".

We all need to pay appropriate taxes to support the society we all live in - wanting to keep an extra 5% of anything you earn over £150k is just being greedy, imho (speaking as someone who has been on 40% and above tax rate for over 25 years).
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Last edited by Hugh; 25-04-2019 at 20:18.
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Old 25-04-2019, 20:27   #2883
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Depends on your definition of ‘over-tax".

When companies off-shore Holding Companies to avoid paying Corporation Tax, or use complex barely legal tax avoidance schemes (knowing even if they have to pay, they will have held on to the capital for a few years), remedying those situations is not "over-taxing".

We all need to pay appropriate taxes to support the society we all live in - wanting to keep an extra 5% of anything you earn over £150k is just being greedy, imho (speaking as someone who has been on 40% and above tax rate for over 25 years).
These companies do pay corporation tax, just in the country they are based in and not the UK. They are acting as importers. Nothing new. Just as the main tax paid on a BMW car made in Germany, is paid in Germany. That is where the cost of building the car occurs. Any UK tax will only be paid on the "commission" part of any sale. Money earned from Intellectual Property(eg Franchise fees, copyright, etc) can be sent to any country in the world. Nothing new in that.
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Old 25-04-2019, 20:30   #2884
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.
That’s right wing ideology. Your inability to recognise that is irrelevant.

The ability of the “rich” as you put it to take their money elsewhere is questionable at best. Taxing income (for individuals) and profits (for companies) you are making the flawed assumption that everyone can readily make the same amount/enjoy the same standard of living, working or trading elsewhere in the world.

That’s simply not true for the vast majority. Scaremongering.

A high earner with children could quickly find their marginal gains lost by paying tuition fees. Not to mention higher house prices in the rest of the UK.

Last edited by jfman; 25-04-2019 at 20:38.
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Old 25-04-2019, 20:50   #2885
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

To answer the original question: still no. And while the SNP furiously backtracks on its 2014 policy position (“once in a generation”) the true guardian of the UK constitution - the UK government - has once more reiterated that the 2014 referendum was a once in a generation event and that it will not legislate to grant Holyrood the necessary powers to hold a legal referendum before 2021.

And the whole thing has made even fewer waves than the last time Sturgeon jumped on the outrage bus in 2016. Which really ought to tell her something about how fatigued the Scottish electorate is with all this. SNP huffing and puffing about independence has just become background noise.
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Old 25-04-2019, 21:02   #2886
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

If Brexit happens, or the Corbyn needs the SNP to prop up a Labour Government, I can see it happening.

If Brexit fails I think people are tired of constitutional questions.
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Old 25-04-2019, 22:16   #2887
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
These companies do pay corporation tax, just in the country they are based in and not the UK. They are acting as importers. Nothing new. Just as the main tax paid on a BMW car made in Germany, is paid in Germany. That is where the cost of building the car occurs. Any UK tax will only be paid on the "commission" part of any sale. Money earned from Intellectual Property(eg Franchise fees, copyright, etc) can be sent to any country in the world. Nothing new in that.
I wonder why the Conservatives brought a new law in, then?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...irms-uk-amazon
Quote:
Internet companies that legally avoid taxes by shifting profits overseas face being taxed on royalties on UK sales in a move dubbed the “Google tax”.

The measure, predicted to raise about £200m a year, forms part of the government’s latest package to tackle tax avoidance and evasion, which the chancellor predicted would raise a total of £4.8bn by 2022-23.

In his budget speech, Philip Hammond said: “Multinational digital businesses pay billions of pounds in royalties to jurisdictions where they are not taxed – and some of these royalties relate to UK sales.

“So, from April 2019, and in accordance with our international obligations, we will apply income tax to royalties relating to UK sales, when those royalties are paid to a low-tax jurisdiction.”

The move comes after international criticism of the taxes paid by huge digital businesses such as Google and Amazon, which route their profits through low-tax states.

A recent study found Amazon paid 11 times less corporation tax in the UK than British bookstores. Last year, Google agreed a deal with British tax authorities to pay £130m in back taxes and bear a greater tax burden in future.

The push to claw more taxes from digital businesses came as part of the chancellor’s yearly assault on tax evasion and avoidance.

He said the government had secured £160bn in additional tax revenue since 2010, and that his latest steps would raise £4.8bn. The figure includes £2.3bn of additional tax revenues brought in after committing £155m in new resources for HM Revenue & Customs.

HMRC is also benefiting from having the time it has to investigate all offshore tax non-compliance extended to 12 years, in the Treasury’s response to offshore exposés such as the Panama and Paradise Papers.
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Old 25-04-2019, 22:20   #2888
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Yes-Scotland and then the North of Ireland
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Old 25-04-2019, 22:27   #2889
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Yes-Scotland and then the North of Ireland
It’s the common sense solution to allowing England to solve it’s identity crisis. No Empire, not a leader in military terms, not a leader in Europe.
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Old 25-04-2019, 22:42   #2890
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
I wonder why the Conservatives brought a new law in, then?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...irms-uk-amazon
What Google "sell" is supplied from ABROAD.

Amazon distribute goods sold by OTHER companies. Those OTHER companies actually pay any corporation tax due. Amazon charges a fee, and tax will be due on that, but the large costs of setting up warehouses etc will eat into the amount of tax due. Just as it would for ANY other business. Amazon UK doesn't "own" any of the products in their UK warehouses. Any Amazon products are owned by an Amazon company based outside the UK.

With a supermarket, a company like Heinz will SELL to Tesco's, cans of baked beans. Heinz pay tax on that, Tesco's pay tax based on the profits of selling those baked beans. If a product Tesco's sells comes from outside the UK, then UK tax WON'T be due on the sale of it to Tesco's.

It's the same way it has ALWAYS been. It's just that the internet and cheapness of transportation makes it easier to operate from abroad, and so the use has increased.
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Old 25-04-2019, 22:48   #2891
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
What Google "sell" is supplied from ABROAD.

Amazon distribute goods sold by OTHER companies. Those OTHER companies actually pay any corporation tax due. Amazon charges a fee, and tax will be due on that, but the large costs of setting up warehouses etc will eat into the amount of tax due. Just as it would for ANY other business. Amazon UK doesn't "own" any of the products in their UK warehouses. Any Amazon products are owned by an Amazon company based outside the UK.

With a supermarket, a company like Heinz will SELL to Tesco's, cans of baked beans. Heinz pay tax on that, Tesco's pay tax based on the profits of selling those baked beans. If a product Tesco's sells comes from outside the UK, then UK tax WON'T be due on the sale of it to Tesco's.

It's the same way it has ALWAYS been. It's just that the internet and cheapness of transportation makes it easier to operate from abroad, and so the use has increased.
Not once we have tariffs with everyone.
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Old 25-04-2019, 23:04   #2892
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok
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Old 25-04-2019, 23:12   #2893
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok
It stops Scotland being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with. Nobody claims it’d be utopia. For many it can’t get worse!

It’s a win for England though, no more Barnett and no Labour Party with a chance of winning.
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Old 25-04-2019, 23:25   #2894
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok
You're 50% correct.
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Old 25-04-2019, 23:28   #2895
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It stops Scotland being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with. Nobody claims it’d be utopia. For many it can’t get worse!

It’s a win for England though, no more Barnett and no Labour Party with a chance of winning.
And therefore "being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with".
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