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Old 02-08-2020, 11:03   #4891
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Anyone can come up with a plan, it's whether it works or not.

Too soon to tell?
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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
It is better to have a plan even if it ain't that good rather than have no plan at all.
Nice answer Den, maybe everyone will now stop knocking the Government?
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:10   #4892
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Another lockdown would be disastrous. I’ll think we’ll just be playing COVID Whack-a-mole For the foreseeable future.
We'll get better at managing them as time goes on and the "moles" should become smaller.

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Nice answer Den, maybe everyone will now stop knocking the Government?
It's right to hold those in power to account, more so when our figures are so poor compared to our peers in Europe. So it's right to praise them when they do things right and to point out when they appear to be doing things wrong so the lessons are learnt.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 02-08-2020 at 11:15.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:16   #4893
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Nice answer Den, maybe everyone will now stop knocking the Government?
No ones knocking it as governments have to be questioned and scrutinised as that is part of the democratic process.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:23   #4894
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
No ones knocking it as governments have to be questioned and scrutinised as that is part of the democratic process.
I would like someone to scrutinise these scientists and their advice, pluss i would like to see the science that comes up with all this lockdown advice,something written down would be nice not just ohh lets lock up old people and shut the pubs,because it's all sounding like a load of old bollocks to me
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:38   #4895
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
It's right to hold those in power to account, more so when our figures are so poor compared to our peers in Europe. So it's right to praise them when they do things right and to point out when they appear to be doing things wrong so the lessons are learnt.
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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
No ones knocking it as governments have to be questioned and scrutinised as that is part of the democratic process.
Right, I'll take your word for it then


Only because I really can't be bothered to trawl back through the many threads & posts on the forum, looking for those 'choice' words and phrases used by some to 'question or scrutinise' the Government
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:45   #4896
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
At last - a more sensible approach to apply instead of total lockdown. The PM appears to have listened to my advice!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-new-lockdown/

Boris Johnson has asked officials to prepare a suite of possible measures that could help avoid shutting down the economy for a second time, after he said that he wanted to avoid another lockdown.

The options include a programme of "enhanced" or "differential" shielding, as part of which vulnerable people would be asked to remain at home while the rest of the population continued to move around freely. One proposal is for the shielded group to be allocated specific times of the week to have exclusive access to some services and shops.
Key words being “help avoid”.

Yes, we all want to avoid a second lockdown. However if these proposed measures don’t work back into lockdown we go. It’s inevitable.

It’s notable that the language throughout doesn’t rule it out.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:41   #4897
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If the first point is a disguised criticism of Muslims for things like the Leicester lock-down, I refer you to this Full Fact analysis. https://fullfact.org/health/leiceste...utbreak-islam/

Regarding testing in care homes, the reasons that many guests are in them mean that they can't just walk into "testing set-ups"!
So no actual specific evidence to the contrary.
Link
Quote:
For anyone who's paid attention to Britain's South Asian community and its response to the Covid crisis, Thursday's dramatic announcement of new restrictions in northern England will have come as no surprise.
The areas affected, including Blackburn, Oldham, Bradford and Manchester, have large populations with roots in the Indian subcontinent. And while West Yorkshire Tory MP Craig Whittaker was accused of racism for claiming there are 'sections of our community that are just not taking the pandemic seriously', I'm afraid that he had a point, however clumsily he made it.
I have experience as a community leader in Leicester, where the Covid restrictions were widely ignored by the city's minority ethnic population – and where the Government ordered the first local lockdown after the rate of infection soared last month.

Quote:
A friend of mine had an urgent appointment for a blood test on Friday at his doctor's surgery in Leicester. As a shielded person, he was shocked to see a number of South Asian women from different households hugging each other in a park.
This sums up the depressing lack of civic awareness I have seen and it is why I have no doubt that – but for the latest Government intervention – many families would have ignored the dangers and mixed with multiple households and generations to celebrate Eid.
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Quote:
I have lost count of the times since March when I have spoken to people about Covid-19, only for them to simply shrug off the risks and say there is nothing to be done.
Now there's actual evidence.


Tests can also be requested over the phone.
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Old 02-08-2020, 13:09   #4898
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So no actual specific evidence to the contrary.
Innocent until proven guilty is the law in this country at the moment. There is insufficient evidence to prove or disprove it. I cited an independent fact-checking service, not a right-wing tabloid.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Tests can also be requested over the phone.
The point of a drop-in centre is you drop in, it's not Deliveroo. As Hugh pointed out, the Government has sadly back-pedalled on is commitment to test all in care homes for coronavirus this summer.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 02-08-2020 at 13:19.
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Old 02-08-2020, 14:34   #4899
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
... and of sufficiently different culture as not to want to obey the rules.
So, much like the English abroad then?

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
As I said before, I don’t think you are guilty of "unconscious bias"...

I think anyone actively promoting "a clash of cultures" is a "baddie", whichever "culture*" they think they are...

*"culture" - British culture has always been modified and shaped by our interactions with the world outside our shores, and migrants to our land, but that’s not what you meant by "our culture", is it?
The "British" culture referred to is best viewed through a set of myopic, Empire tinted spectacles
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Old 02-08-2020, 16:39   #4900
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
But they ARE being criticised for going to the beach etc. The key difference is that I'm not aware of any evidence that it has lead to any town/city wide lockdowns. Another huge key difference is the level of interaction between groups.


Many areas have their own walk-in testing setups. The care homes can use that.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------


How would that make a difference? There would still be an intermingling between those separate groups at one stage or another.
Not really. The idea is to prevent intermingling!

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
It's right to hold those in power to account, more so when our figures are so poor compared to our peers in Europe. So it's right to praise them when they do things right and to point out when they appear to be doing things wrong so the lessons are learnt.
Yes, but criticising the government at every turn, and before the full picture is known is plain destructive. A report will be commissioned, but it is too early to draw conclusions on how well or how badly this country is doing.

I'm not sure why you still compare the number of deaths due to Covid in the UK with those of other countries, when it has already been pointed out that each country gathers and presents its data differently. How can you sensibly compare our figures, which records all Covid deaths whether in hospitals, care homes or the community, when others are only counting hospital deaths, for example?

Even counting excess deaths isn't without its problems - 21,000 deaths have occurred due to postponement of operations and other measures imposed by the lockdown arrangements.

Any idiot can criticise - this is a highly complex issue and even the scientists are struggling to come up with appropriate and timely responses. The government has been following their advice throughout, like it or not.
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Old 02-08-2020, 17:01   #4901
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
The "British" culture referred to is best viewed through a set of myopic, Empire tinted spectacles
Must be really depressing to hate yourself so much.

I, on the other hand, love being a white British working/middle class male.

I perceive my “culture” as being polite, tolerant of others, freedom of choice, thought and speech. Fighting for what is right, not being bullied, Promotion of women rights LGBTQ Rights, BAME rights ( don’t like The acronym BAME, but there we are), as a nation Supporting developing countries.

Many of these ideas not shared by immigrant communities.

We have a past, of course, you could certainly argue a lot of it exploitative, but we also built infrastructure, and brought wealth and knowledge. A lot of which is still utilised by these nations.

I don’t carry the burden of previous generations Questionable actions on my shoulders, But I do recognise many of their achievements. Am I biased, of course I am, and I don’t care.
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Old 02-08-2020, 17:17   #4902
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
So, much like the English abroad then?

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:31 ----------



The "British" culture referred to is best viewed through a set of myopic, Empire tinted spectacles
Utter bollox. Prove it?
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Old 02-08-2020, 17:41   #4903
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Must be really depressing to hate yourself so much.

I, on the other hand, love being a white British working/middle class male.

I perceive my “culture” as being polite, tolerant of others, freedom of choice, thought and speech. Fighting for what is right, not being bullied, Promotion of women rights LGBTQ Rights, BAME rights ( don’t like The acronym BAME, but there we are), as a nation Supporting developing countries.

Many of these ideas not shared by immigrant communities.

We have a past, of course, you could certainly argue a lot of it exploitative, but we also built infrastructure, and brought wealth and knowledge. A lot of which is still utilised by these nations.

I don’t carry the burden of previous generations Questionable actions on my shoulders, But I do recognise many of their achievements. Am I biased, of course I am, and I don’t care.
I do not hate my self. Once you start with the personal ad-hominem attacks then you have pretty much lost the argument. So thank you for your post ..

You list a set of virtuous traits that represent your perceived "culture" but the end of the political spectrum you seem to affiliate yourself to is dedicated to the opposite so you seem to be a contradiction.

You also aim to validate Colonialism by the perceived benefits the occupier gave to the occupied. You clearly abdicate yourself and your "culture" of any negative aspects associated with Empire but are more that willing to claim its "benefits". A wonderful smorgasboard of contradiction.

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Utter bollox. Prove it?
Nothing for me to prove here. All people need to do is to read your posts .. the evidence is all there.
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Old 02-08-2020, 17:43   #4904
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Re: Coronavirus

Topic? I'm sure we have veered right away from it.
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Old 02-08-2020, 17:52   #4905
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Re: Coronavirus

It’s certainly veered right...
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