Brexit (Old) - Page 485

mrmistoffelees · 03-02-2019, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

There are no job losses, this was about investment and job creation. The X-Trail which 100% made in japan was to be made here, announced 3 years ago.

However, no that Japan has got its FTA with the EU that isn’t so urgent now. They will cite Brexit for their reasoning and probably is a factor, but not the whole reason

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

If it was just that, there wouldn’t be an issue

As you say not job losses but the job creation aspect is wiped out not just at Nissan but for all the suppliers. Diesel turndown which also plays a part can’t be used as a reason as Nissan are revamping the engine range. The lines in Sunderland are the most effective that Nissan have in their manufacturing base.

The people of Sunderland as a whole are turkeys voting for Christmas. Sunderland needs all the investment that they can get. The city is a shadow of its former self.

ianch99 · 03-02-2019, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes, it would clearly be benefit fraud to claim to be living elsewhere in order to obtain higher payments from the welfare state. Unfortunately, as my earlier link showed, sick & disabled people wouldn't even continue to receive frozen payments.

A lot of disabled people go to live abroad as the warmer climate is better for various conditions (sometimes on doctors advice). If I decided to do this it looks like i'd have to obtain an Irish passport to be able to move to Spain. I have friends in India, so maybe I could go there if there are no longer any advantages to moving to an EU country and my benefits would be stopped anyway. It's a lot cheaper to live, but I don't know what the Indian healthcare system is like- do you?

I visit (South) India once or twice a year and from what I can see the healthcare system would be viewed at best, of variable quality. Of course, if you have the money, similar to here, you would get a quality service but for those on moderate incomes, even when transposing this to the Indian cost of living, you may be disappointed when compared to the NHS. I think it would be a bit of a punt ..

This idea was the basis of the 'The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel' film but I am not sure on how many people have actually done it.

jfman · 03-02-2019, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Incorrect, Contribution Based ESA (now called New Style ESA) can be paid indefinitely to some claimants. Income Based ESA is gradually being phased out and claimants moved over to Universal Credit (UC). For those where ESA does stop, UC can be paid whilst abroad for between 1 and 6 months.

Payment of means tested benefits whilst abroad has never been available on a permanent basis as they are funded from general taxation. It's believed that the taxpayer should not have to fund people who don't live in this country. Whilst I agree with this, it's annoying that EU migrants (usually Poles in my experience) can come here and claim Child Benefit etc for their offspring back home.

They actually can’t, that’s a myth.

RichardCoulter · 03-02-2019, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

They actually can’t, that’s a myth.

What's a myth?

1andrew1 · 03-02-2019, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

What's a myth?

I read it as the final sentence is a myth.

RichardCoulter · 03-02-2019, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I read it as the final sentence is a myth.

He hasn't made himself clear, but if we assume it's Re: Poles (and others) claiming Child Benefit for kids abroad then he's incorrect again.

Cameron even made a statement about this ridiculous situation in Parliament after this hit the media:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...nts-outside-uk

Seven years ago we were paying 36 million pounds a year for this (due to EU rules we have no choice), yet at the same time Child Benefit for children living in this country has been cut in real terms and stopped completely in some cases.

When I said that both leaving & staying in the EU had advantages and disadvantages, this will be one of the advantages of leaving.

Pierre · 03-02-2019, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

They actually can’t, that’s a myth.

Unless I read this wrong......they can.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-move-to-uk

RichardCoulter · 03-02-2019, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

I visit (South) India once or twice a year and from what I can see the healthcare system would be viewed at best, of variable quality. Of course, if you have the money, similar to here, you would get a quality service but for those on moderate incomes, even when transposing this to the Indian cost of living, you may be disappointed when compared to the NHS. I think it would be a bit of a punt ..

This idea was the basis of the 'The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel' film but I am not sure on how many people have actually done it.

Thanks, I knew you'd been to India and wondered what your observations were

**Hugh** · 03-02-2019, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Which all goes to prove my point that the/many Irish still are antagonistic towards Britain, including the non-native Irish Varadkar.

Anyway, by your analogy we can stretch to the various invaders of England in the days before Kirk Douglas (to coin a phrase from Porridge).

No, they’re not - you just say they are.

To (most) Irish, and those of Irish descent, it’s History - we acknowledge it, but know it’s in the past, and don’t get bitter (if only others did the same).

Vardakar was born in Dublin, his mother is from County Waterford - how is he "non-native Irish"?

That’s like saying my son and daughter are "non-native English" because I was born in Scotland, even though they were born, and have lived all their lives (not counting Uni and travels abroad) in Yorkshire.

"non-native Irish" - shame on you.

Sephiroth · 03-02-2019, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, they’re not - you just say they are.

To (most) Irish, and those of Irish descent, it’s History - we acknowledge it, but know it’s in the past, and don’t get bitter (if only others did the same).

Vardakar was born in Dublin, his mother is from County Waterford - how is he "non-native Irish"?

That’s like saying my son and daughter are "non-native English" because I was born in Scotland, even though they were born, and have lived all their lives (not counting Uni and travels abroad) in Yorkshire.

"non-native Irish" - shame on you.

Good old Irish name, Varadkar. You know what I mean and hardly affected by the British maltreatment (which I don't question).

**Hugh** · 03-02-2019, 22:38

Big difference between non-Irish name and non-Irish native...

Is Sajid Javid a non-British native because of his non-British name?

Sephiroth · 04-02-2019, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Big difference between non-Irish name and non-Irish native...

Is Sajid David a non-British native because of his non-British name?

I think you are being too simplistic, maybe disingenuously even.

Resentments lie deep in the psyche which is stronger as the attached ancestral history extends. It's obvious that Varadkar has adopted the resentments.

As to Javid, we're talking about antagonisms here - not the status of British ethnic individuals. I hope he cheers the England cricket team.

Angua · 04-02-2019, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unless I read this wrong......they can.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-move-to-uk

One of the issues that was entirely down to weak UK laws, which the Poles have taken advantage of.

BenMcr · 04-02-2019, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unless I read this wrong......they can.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-move-to-uk

You have to have contributed before you can it for a child who lives outside the UK according to that. Means-tested benefits don't make you eligible.

For instance you wouldn't qualify if you get Income-based JSA, but would if you get contributions-based JSA.

So you get a benefit that you've paid towards via taxation - what's incorrect about that?

RichardCoulter · 04-02-2019, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

You have to have contributed before you can it for a child who lives outside the UK according to that. Means-tested benefits don't make you eligible.

For instance you wouldn't qualify if you get Income-based JSA, but would if you get contributions-based JSA.

So you get a benefit that you've paid towards via taxation - what's incorrect about that?

It was the EU that forced us to pay for children in Poland etc. Child Benefit isn't a contributory benefit, but it's true that to take advantage of this EU migrants have to be working.

This is easy to exploit eg a taxi driver saying that they earn £1 an hour, a scrap metal collector who, on paper, hardly finds any metal etc.

I think that Cameron brought in various rules to combat this (we are unable to treat EU migrants any differently to those living here) eg two child limit, increasing the minimum wage (which the Tories were initially against completely as they thought that a min wage would cost jobs) and a notional income from self employed people after one year for Universal Credit etc.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Even before we both joined the EU, I believe that since the 1930's the UK & Ireland have had a reciprocal agreement where people are free to live between the two countries. I was also under the impression that a passport wasn't needed.

I'm thinking of visiting Ireland when i'm well enough (it will be after Brexut day) and initially thought that I wouldn't need to renew my passport but, apparently, the airlines sometimes insist on a passport!?