Brexit (Old)

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jfman

If the troubles do arise it’s because England are ignoring the will of the island of Ireland. So not entirely new that trouble flares elsewhere because of bad decisions made in London. That’s virtually the whole collapse of the Empire in a nutshell.

They haven't exactly stopped

Timeline of dissident republican activity

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10866072

[heero_yuy]

This event seems to have been deleted from press coverage. I wonder why?

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/...7-248f2a072f42

Steve Bakers evidence is very damning. He claims the Dept for exiting the EE (DEXEU) was set up as a front, to make it look as though the government was supporting Brexit, but it was being sidelined at every opportunity to stay as close to the EU as possible. The DEXEU dept was comprised of Leavers, but other depts were all comprised of Remainers who were working against the DEXEU, in secrecy.


He also says he asked for a Minister to be appointed to refute all the scare stories in the press, but was denied permission. He wanted the government to publicise the good news, ie. arrangements completed to ensure free trade at ports, and was again refused.

I'm obliged to a member on another forum for bringing this to my attention.

Because it smacks of a preemptive attempt to blame failings on everyone else as per usual?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

Because it smacks of a preemptive attempt to blame failings on everyone else as per usual?

Brexiters blaming others for the oncoming economic crisis, surely not !

If the entire government was working together to get as close a relationship as possible then that was hardly reflected in the deal May came back with was it? Since the start it’s clear freedom of movement was a red line and she never wavered from that. We said two years ago the Brexiters would try to create a stab in the back narrative when the brilliant deal never materialised and here we are.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I don't think it will happen tbh, also, if NI was treated differently to the rest of the UK, the DUP would probably object. I only hope that, whatever happens, the troubles don't resurface.

The whole thing seems to be more complicated than what a lot of people realised, apparent solutions to various issues only serve to be objectionable to others.

NI is already treated differently to the rest of the U.K.

The 1967 Abortion Act and the 2013 Defamation Act do not apply in Northern Ireland, and there are quite a few laws that are different (much like Scotland).

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

And more news...

https://news.sky.com/story/leaving-e...m-fox-11627019

Liam Fox has said leaving the European Union without a deal will be "survivable".

The international trade secretary told Sophy Ridge on Sunday that it would not be in Britain's best interest to leave without a deal in place with the European Union, and admitted it could put the economy "into a position of unnecessary turmoil".

He said: "We would be able to deal with that scenario but it wouldn't be in our interest to go there.

"It seems to me we have got to guard against two things. One is an irrational pessimism that says that everything will be a catastrophe and irrational optimism which says everything will be okay.

"The truth lies between the two."

"It has always seemed to me a bit strange that people would say 'well we don't need to worry about having a future trade deal with Europe, we can operate on WTO terms', while at the same time saying we should have a free trade agreement with the United States to get away from WTO rules. We have to be consistent."

This from the man who said in 2017

Securing a free trade deal with the European Union should be “one of the easiest in human history”

Catching Ebola is survivable, but it’s not something most people would chose to do...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

NI is already treated differently to the rest of the U.K.

The 1967 Abortion Act and the 2013 Defamation Act do not apply in Northern Ireland, and there are quite a few laws that are different (much like Scotland).

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

And more news...

https://news.sky.com/story/leaving-e...m-fox-11627019

This from the man who said in 2017

Catching Ebola is survivable, but it’s not something most people would chose to do...

They are LOCAL issues, not national ones. Just as in the US, individual states cannot pass laws in certain areas, they are done at Federal level.


A trade deal with the EU should've been easy, if it wasn't for the Remain side sabotaging it by giving the impression that the UK would give in to whatever the EU demanded. "No deal" would be bad for the EU, but they are constantly given the impression that one way or another that a "bad deal" (as far the UK is concerned), will be the final result.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They are LOCAL issues, not national ones. Just as in the US, individual states cannot pass laws in certain areas, they are done at Federal level.


A trade deal with the EU should've been easy, if it wasn't for the Remain side sabotaging it by giving the impression that the UK would give in to whatever the EU demanded. "No deal" would be bad for the EU, but they are constantly given the impression that one way or another that a "bad deal" (as far the UK is concerned), will be the final result.

We've already got a trade deal with the EU, it come with the membership..
Remainers are not to blame for Brexit ! It's a crap idea always has been.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

We've already got a trade deal with the EU, it come with the membership..
Remainers are not to blame for Brexit ! It's a crap idea always has been.

Remainers ARE to blame for Brexit, in that they are the ones that made EU membership unpalatable for the MAJORITY. Nevertheless what I was referring to, as "Hugh" was in the post I was responding to, is the ease or otherwise of getting a sensible deal with the EU. After all, if the EU is so ready to do deals with Japan, Vietnam and others, why not with us? How close is the deal with Japan to what would be acceptable in the UK and to the Brexit side(ie respecting democracy)? I doubt Japan is allowing freedom of movement, following rules set by the EU, and ruled on by the ECJ?

[jfman]

Presumably exporting tariff free into the third largest economy (and the growth possibilities in Japan) is more appealing than exporting into the sixth?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

Presumably exporting tariff free into the third largest economy (and the growth possibilities in Japan) is more appealing than exporting into the sixth?

The size of the economy doesn't really mean anything. If depends on what and how much you export to them. A possible 0.2% increase in GDP isn't much when you balance it out against import duties that are no longer going into the EU budget.

In its annual health check for the euro area, the Washington-based fund said economic growth across the 27 remaining EU states would fall by as much as 1.5% by 2030, if Britain falls back on World Trade Organisation rules for its trading relationship with the EU after leaving next year.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Because it smacks of a preemptive attempt to blame failings on everyone else as per usual?

Exactly. I'm sure those east-of-Poland social media accounts will be encouraging followers to adopt a victim, establishment-is-against us, everyone-else-is-to-blame narrative.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The size of the economy doesn't really mean anything. If depends on what and how much you export to them. A possible 0.2% increase in GDP isn't much when you balance it out against import duties that are no longer going into the EU budget.

Of course the size of an economy you have a free trade deal with matters! It's Brexit logic to imply the potential of a free trade deal with a poor economy is of equal potential to a strong economy.

I suppose that might be the future for us though!

The EU will inevitably take some hit from Brexit, but it also knows we will too and it can hold out longer. We could hit real supply side problems within days of Brexit. That gives them leverage.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

If the troubles do arise it’s because England are ignoring the will of the island of Ireland.

What will is that then?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They are LOCAL issues, not national ones. Just as in the US, individual states cannot pass laws in certain areas, they are done at Federal level.

A trade deal with the EU should've been easy, if it wasn't for the Remain side sabotaging it by giving the impression that the UK would give in to whatever the EU demanded. "No deal" would be bad for the EU, but they are constantly given the impression that one way or another that a "bad deal" (as far the UK is concerned), will be the final result.

We've spent the last two years not negotiating a trade deal but faffing around with a withdrawal agreement. As I understand it, we could have negotiated a trade deal in this time so that when we left on 29 March, we would have a trade deal with the EU and some deals across the world ready to sign at the annointed hour.

I genuinely think it would have been easier if everyone had acknowledged that the Irish border was a genuine issue, did not come up with daft red lines and we spent more than the four days a year that David Davis did on negotiations!

We came up with a whole bunch of red lines, ignored the Irish border hoping it would either go away and magically hoped everything would sort itself out.

But let's not pretend that trade deals are a simple matter of cut and pasting UK in place of EU. As Simon Jacks, the BBC's Business Editor notes, "For products to enjoy preferential terms under a trade deal, there is a requirement for them to be predominantly made of components from that country. In the trade deal the EU has with South Korea, 55% of the car components must be from the EU.
If the same test was applied to the UK as a stand-alone country, none of the cars manufactured here would pass a test requiring 55% of components to come from the UK."

That's not Project Fear. It's reality.