An email from Neil Berkett re: VM HD Channels - Page 11

RichardCoulter · 24-01-2019, 19:15

I agree, but it's what people tend to do!

I can't fathom why they would pay all that money for an HD set and then watch an inferior quality channel when a better one is available. It's akin to people in the sixties/seventies watching BBC1 & ITV on the 405 line service when they had a dual standard TV with the superior 625 line services available.

Mad Max · 24-01-2019, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

Not quiet sure why people watch SD when HD is available, especially on bigger TV's. The difference in quality makes all the difference.

Totally agree with that, there's nowt so queer as folk, as they say up north....

spiderplant · 24-01-2019, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

It's akin to people in the sixties/seventies watching BBC1 & ITV on the 405 line service when they had a dual standard TV with the superior 625 line services available.

It wasn't that simple. We had a dual standard TV*, but it only had a VHF tuner, and they put the 625 line channels on UHF. Dad wasn't happy at missing all the wildlife programmes on BBC2.

(*) I used to enjoy pushing the "625" button and watching the lines getting smaller. Happy days!

Raider999 · 24-01-2019, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I agree, but it's what people tend to do!

I can't fathom why they would pay all that money for an HD set and then watch an inferior quality channel when a better one is available. It's akin to people in the sixties/seventies watching BBC1 & ITV on the 405 line service when they had a dual standard TV with the superior 625 line services available.

They wouldn't watch SD in preference to HD if the HD variant was more prominently placed in the EPG.

Why is bbc1 SD on 101 and HD on 108 for instance?

Wouldn't it be an idea for an option in Settings to choose HD or SD (and logically in the future UHD)?

BenMcr · 24-01-2019, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999

Why is bbc1 SD on 101 and HD on 108 for instance?

Because in England the regions aren't in HD.

BBC One HD is on 101 elsewhere in the UK.

RichardCoulter · 24-01-2019, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999

They wouldn't watch SD in preference to HD if the HD variant was more prominently placed in the EPG...

I agree, it's simply down to inertia.

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant

It wasn't that simple. We had a dual standard TV*, but it only had a VHF tuner, and they put the 625 line channels on UHF. Dad wasn't happy at missing all the wildlife programmes on BBC2.

(*) I used to enjoy pushing the "625" button and watching the lines getting smaller. Happy days!

I've never heard of a dual standard TV without UHF before!

RichardCoulter · 25-01-2019, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant

It wasn't that simple. We had a dual standard TV*, but it only had a VHF tuner, and they put the 625 line channels on UHF. Dad wasn't happy at missing all the wildlife programmes on BBC2.

(*) I used to enjoy pushing the "625" button and watching the lines getting smaller. Happy days!

I asked someone about this and he said that, if your parents had of been on cable, you might have been able to get BBC2!

Some cable 60s/70s systems ran all three channels on VHF, because cable signal loss is a lot lower at VHF than UHF. So BBC 2 UHF was downconverted to a 625 line VHF signal on these systems, (and BBC1/ITV 405 transposed to other VHF frequencies to avoid direct cable pick up from the tx being a problem).

Later when BBC 1 and ITV launched on 625 UHF they are similarly down-converted to VHF.

Also, my own research shows that some dual standard TV's were sold with a VHF tuner only with the idea being that a seperate UHF tuner could be purchased and added later on. You learn something new every day!

https://www.transdiffusion.org/2017/...to-625-line-tv (section 17).

spiderplant · 25-01-2019, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I asked someone about this and he said that, if your parents had of been on cable, you might have been able to get BBC2!

This was 30 years before cable reached them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Also, my own research shows that some dual standard TV's were sold with a VHF tuner only with the idea being that a seperate UHF tuner could be purchased and added later on. You learn something new every day!

https://www.transdiffusion.org/2017/...to-625-line-tv (section 17).

Good find. Yes, that was exactly the situation. Our TV had the 625 line circuitry, but needed a tuner upgrade. I think my dad felt it had been missold.

RichardCoulter · 25-01-2019, 23:02

I suppose an analogy could be the early HD TV's that were marked as 'HD ready' ie people were probably misled into thinking that they were future proofing themselves for the forthcoming new technology.

spiderplant · 26-01-2019, 09:43

"HD Ready" was actually a good thing. It was a standard that guaranteed the interworking of equipment at a minimum of 720p.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090210....php?iddoc=242

It was TVs marked with things like "HDTV Ready" that you had to be wary of.

RichardCoulter · 26-01-2019, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant

"HD Ready" was actually a good thing. It was a standard that guaranteed the interworking of equipment at a minimum of 720p.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090210....php?iddoc=242

It was TVs marked with things like "HDTV Ready" that you had to be wary of.

So was the only difference between an HDTV Ready TV and an HD TV that an external box was needed to obtain the HD signals for the TV ie it only had an SD Freeview tuner?

If so, these would have been fine for VM customers as all they really needed was an HD source to obtain the HD signals which is provided by their STB?

BenMcr · 26-01-2019, 12:57

Also the lack of HDMI. Some older HD TVs without being HD Ready only had analog component inputs for HD.

spiderplant · 26-01-2019, 14:25

Freeview HD didn't exist at the time that HD Ready was specified. HD Ready only relates to the display properties. A TV could be marked HD Ready if it met the requirements, but so could a monitor that has no tuner at all.

You couldn't trust any display that wasn't marked "HD Ready". "HDTV Ready" (or any other similar wording) didn't mean anything in particular. For instance, it might only have component inputs, or might have an HDMI or DVI input but not support HDCP, or not support 720p and 1080i inputs.

RichardCoulter · 26-01-2019, 15:59

I wonder if we'll face similar problems with UHD or 4K sets (apparently, there's a subtle difference between the two)?

heero_yuy · 26-01-2019, 16:55

Quote:

Quote from RichardCoulter:

I wonder if we'll face similar problems with UHD or 4K sets (apparently, there's a subtle difference between the two)?

The dilemma that faces all early adopters: Get the latest tech that might be lacking some vital feature or even become obsolete so you can willy wave or be patient and wait for the technology to settle on a common standard: VHS vs Betamax.