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Old Yesterday, 20:59   #1456
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
In the interests of completeness, here are the deaths purely from COVID. About 17,000 in England & Wales.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...ingcauses?s=09
So, not the 150K that the doomsayers were promoting.
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Old Yesterday, 21:03   #1457
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The Covid report will be written this year. Another inaccurate calculation on your part.....

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------



If people have died because they couldn't get an operation due to attention of hospitals being diverted elsewhere, it is not a Covid death. Excess deaths include many deaths which are not due to Covid, so again, this is at best an indicator.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------



Yes, the conspiracy theorists choose to ignore the fact that the review was due to take place anyway. Beware Hugh's biassed fact checker service!
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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I am not arguing that ‘excess deaths’ doesn’t indicate a measure of the crisis, of course it does.

But it does not measure deaths that are directly connected to Covid infection.That was my point.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------



Come on, Andrew, you are the one interpreting information to suit your argument.

Comparison of Covid deaths between countries when every country includes different criteria for producing the statistics is clearly inaccurate. And these are not small inaccuracies. If one country only records Hospital Covid deaths and another records all deaths including deaths in the community and in care homes, that’s a pretty big difference.

Similarly, if excess deaths includes people who are not having their health conditions monitored and those whose operations have been put back, this does reflect the scale of the problem, but what that figure is not showing is the number of Covid deaths.

I would have thought that all the pedants we encounter on this forum would recognise that immediately. But not when it doesn’t suit your argument, it seems.
Nice try changing your proposition from "excess deaths due to COVID” to "excess deaths due to COVID infection"…

If people died due to not being able to be treated because the hospitals are full of COVID patients, they are excess deaths due to COVID.
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Old Yesterday, 23:59   #1458
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Nice try changing your proposition from "excess deaths due to COVID” to "excess deaths due to COVID infection"…

If people died due to not being able to be treated because the hospitals are full of COVID patients, they are excess deaths due to COVID.
I haven’t tried to change anything. You know very well I was talking about Covid infections.

---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
In the interests of completeness, here are the deaths purely from COVID. About 17,000 in England & Wales.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...ingcauses?s=09
Thank you, spiderplant.
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Old Today, 06:05   #1459
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
A phrase involving straws and grasping springs to mind.
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Old Today, 08:53   #1460
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Re: Coronavirus

James Brian, is a pathetic, woke idiot, to be simply ignored.
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Old Today, 10:54   #1461
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant View Post
In the interests of completeness, here are the deaths purely from COVID. About 17,000 in England & Wales.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...ingcauses?s=09
That links to a little goldmine of data (here) In the notes of the spreadsheet, it does note that the deaths recorded are deaths due to COVID, not deaths with COVID. COVID needs to be specifically noted on the death certificate as a cause of death and there is a very formal definition of this (WHO guidelines) There can of course be multiple causes of death.

Looking at the proportion of deaths with pre-existing conditions, before vaccines, it was 12.8% and in Q3 2021, it was 17.4% which surprised me as I would have guessed that COVID would be more likely to pick off the already sick. It would be interesting to see the rates of those without pre-existing conditions who were not vaccinated, those who say they are fit and healthy and therefore don't need a vaccine.

Personally, I am quite uncomfortable with people saying COVID is only killing people with underlying conditions and that's OK. It either labels those with those conditions as 'weak' or somehow deserving or irrelevant. Many of the underlying conditions are not a death sentence in themselves and are quite manageable. In the top 20 pre-existing conditions are diabetes, hypertension, cardiac arrythmias, musculoskeletal disorders and obesity. All of these can be treated or managed - those people weren't necessarily going to die anyway
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Old Today, 15:36   #1462
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Re: Coronavirus

The Covid statistical dashboard is at last conceded to be unreliable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-increasingly/

[EXTRACTS]

Covid data updates on the Government’s online dashboard are becoming increasingly unreliable, experts have warned, as it emerged up to 70 per cent of coronavirus patients in hospital were primarily being treated for other problems.

Deaths are reported as Covid on the dashboard if they occur within 28 days of a positive test. But so many people are now being diagnosed with omicron that a large proportion of natural deaths are now also ending up in the figures.
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Old Today, 16:25   #1463
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Re: Coronavirus

So you are saying that if people have COVID, it shouldn't be recorded if they have something else as well?

Unfortunately, we can't see who these "experts" are who are saying this, as it's behind a paywall (and btw, you missed out the important word "current" from proposition, which is what the "experts" are saying - I am sure this was purely accidental, and you weren't deliberately trying to cast doubt on all previous statistics...

And one of the experts states
Quote:
He also warned the data was becoming 'increasingly unreliable', saying many people who get a positive lateral flow test are now failing to register it with the authorities.
So it's unreliable because of under-reporting...

Update - here's a non-paywall link

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-updates.html
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Last edited by Hugh; Today at 16:31.
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