Government & Post Election Discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

As the EU Referendum is a true representation of PR in action it seems as though those advocating for it will never be pleased.

Sorry for the delay in replying but only just picked myself up off the floor. This is the funniest thing I've read since Liam Fox said something about easiest trade deal ever!

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by pip08456

As the EU Referendum is a true representation of PR in action it seems as though those advocating for it will never be pleased.

come off fantasy island

Posts along the lines of "haha we are laughing at you", are childish - this is not a childs playground!!!

Originally Posted by Angua

Still not PR, just a binary choice for which the majority of people who voted chose leave. Large parts of the country voted differently. What May is trying to do is get the majority of people an agreement they can live with. Which includes appeasing remain supporters, who are still a significant part of the population.

How different parts of the country voted is irrelevant.

Also - That's not what ALL Remainers want though is it - they want their losers vote, to stop Brexit, so I'll pass on appeasing the side that lost their campaign in 2016.

And more crucially - That's not how referendums work either - it was one or the other.

Remain or leave - it cannot be a mix of both given only one won the actual vote.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

Posts along the lines of "haha we are laughing at you", are childish - this is not a childs playground!!!



How different parts of the country voted is irrelevant.

Also - That's not what ALL Remainers want though is it - they want their losers vote, to stop Brexit, so I'll pass on appeasing the side that lost their campaign in 2016.

And more crucially - That's not how referendums work either - it was one or the other.

Remain or leave - it cannot be a mix of both given only one won the actual vote.

Then we are back to the problem of a simplistic referendum choice for what has since been discovered is a complex separation. Less than half of those who could vote actively chose either option. Added to which we are still being dictated to by a minority, a minority who voted for the Conservatives to deliver Brexit.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Then we are back to the problem of a simplistic referendum choice for what has since been discovered is a complex separation. Less than half of those who could vote actively chose either option. Added to which we are still being dictated to by a minority, a minority who voted for the Conservatives to deliver Brexit.

If the result had been the other way round and Remain had won by a similar margin, what would you say to the mirror argument by whinging Leavers?

Originally Posted by Angua

Then we are back to the problem of a simplistic referendum choice for what has since been discovered is a complex separation. Less than half of those who could vote actively chose either option. Added to which we are still being dictated to by a minority, a minority who voted for the Conservatives to deliver Brexit.

It's only being made complex by people trying to keep us tied to a corrupted union.

And - you're making the mistake of trying to include the entire populace in your argument.

The 2016 EU Referendum was one of the largest Democratic processes undertaken in modern British History.

Those who were entitled to vote, but didn't because they could not be bothered cannot be included in a total percentage argument. There will never be 100% Turn out. Those who chose not to vote, cannot complain after, if they did not agree with the Democratic decision.

A section of the populace are Children, who are quite rightly, not eligible to vote.

There was a snap election almost a year after the referendum. Voters in their millions voted for two parties, who had Manifested their intentions to follow the result of the EU Referendum, some 80% of the total votes cast.

So trying to use misleading statistics to de-legitimise the "Leave" decision, is totally disingenuous and wrong.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

It's only being made complex by people trying to keep us tied to a corrupted union.

And - you're making the mistake of trying to include the entire populace in your argument.

The 2016 EU Referendum was one of the largest Democratic processes undertaken in modern British History.

Those who were entitled to vote, but didn't because they could not be bothered cannot be included in a total percentage argument. There will never be 100% Turn out. Those who chose not to vote, cannot complain after, if they did not agree with the Democratic decision.

A section of the populace are Children, who are quite rightly, not eligible to vote.

There was a snap election almost a year after the referendum. Voters in their millions voted for two parties, who had Manifested their intentions to follow the result of the EU Referendum, some 80% of the total votes cast.

So trying to use misleading statistics to de-legitimise the "Leave" decision, is totally disingenuous and wrong.

The Good Friday Agreement could end up giving Sinn Fein what they want via Brexit by triggering another unification referendum because of hard borders. Potentially losing the DUP as the prop to the government if unification gets majority support. Given how much the Republic is changing politically there is far less to fear in unification, not something the DUP has ever wanted.

PS. I was very careful to point out the lack of majority for either referendum option by "those who were eligible to vote".

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

The Good Friday Agreement could end up giving Sinn Fein what they want via Brexit by triggering another unification referendum because of hard borders. Potentially losing the DUP as the prop to the government if unification gets majority support. Given how much the Republic is changing politically there is far less to fear in unification, not something the DUP has ever wanted.

PS. I was very careful to point out the lack of majority for either referendum option by "those who were eligible to vote".

Now you are being fanciful. I go to Nor'n I'ron frequently and nobody to whom I've spoken, and I do ask, favour Irish unification. It's a Catholic-Proddy thing. Surely you know that.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Now you are being fanciful. I go to Nor'n I'ron frequently and nobody to whom I've spoken, and I do ask, favour Irish unification. It's a Catholic-Proddy thing. Surely you know that.

They also don’t want JRM’s solution of checkpoints like they had during the Troubles...

“There would be our ability, as we had during the Troubles, to have people inspected. It’s not a border that everyone has to go through every day, but of course for security reasons during the Troubles, we kept a very close eye on the border, to try and stop gun-running and things like that.”

https://www.statista.com/chart/12012...-irish-border/

the Irish border, one of Brexit's major flashpoints. It stretches 499 kilometres and interestingly, it has more crossing points (275) than the whole of the EU's eastern border (137). During the Troubles, the British army sealed off the majority of the routes between the Republic and Northern Ireland with only 20 of them remaining open.

Today, approximately 35,000 people commute across the border every single day. On a monthly basis, 177,000 trucks cross it, along with 208,000 vans.

Every month, it also handles around 1.85 million cars. In terms of annual trade, goods flowing from Northern Ireland are worth €1.83 billion. Trade in the other direction is worth €1.9 billion to the Republic of Ireland.

[Pierre]

Sorry, didn’t realise that this was the Brexit thread.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Sorry, didn’t realise that this was the Brexit thread.

No need to be sorry - the two often overlap...

The Government is doing nothing but Brexit really. Brexit is all. Brexit is forever.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Government is doing nothing but Brexit really. Brexit is all. Brexit is forever.

No .. Diamonds are Forever.

While we are on the subject

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Government is doing nothing but Brexit really. Brexit is all. Brexit is forever.

It's doing A, B, C
A Austerity
B Brexit
C Climbdowns

Originally Posted by Hugh

No need to be sorry - the two often overlap...

Which needs to stop - One Brexit thread is enough.