Coronavirus

I don’t see the issue - if someone wishes to wear a mask (because they believe they could be reducing a risk to others), what’s the problem?

They’re not making you wear one…

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

The Vaccines work. If you’re vaccinated it is extremely, very extremely, unlikely you will die.

No more likely than dying from any other respiratory disease, or any other illness that affects the human race.

It is not March 2020.

There is no need to wear a mask. Unless you’re unvaccinated and in an “at risk” group or just paranoid and affected by 20 months of media and governmental social engineering.

As before they do, but the protection offered decreases over time.

As per your second comment could you provide some supporting evidence ?

Again, it’s not necessarily about protecting yourself, but others around you. Who, may or may not be either unable to have the vaccine or are in at at risk group.

Good luck with getting on a plane if you’re not prepared to wear a mask.

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t see the issue - if someone wishes to wear a mask (because they believe they could be reducing a risk to others), what’s the problem?

They’re not making you wear one…

Aside from the fact that it’s still law in Scotland in a wide variety of contexts, and is therefore a live debate (Nicola *is* making me wear one), I think it’s necessary to respond to comments that appear to be crafted to try to create social pressure in favour of mask wearing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Either it can’t spread, in which case we have no problem, or else it can, and we use the evolving science to determine whether it’s better to use booster jabs or natural reinfection (or a combination) to keep it at bay. Studies continue, and you might find it more profitable to read some of them than to rehearse pompous quasi-political attack lines in your bathroom mirror.

Follow the science, I’m sure someone on this thread used to say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098

If I’m following science in the English language it almost certainly won’t be the political party broadcasts from the BBC.

I don’t see how it’s a “political attack line” to point out the massive shift in rhetoric from yourself and others around the role and purpose of vaccines (and now mass infection!).

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Aside from the fact that it’s still law in Scotland in a wide variety of contexts, and is therefore a live debate (Nicola *is* making me wear one), I think it’s necessary to respond to comments that appear to be crafted to try to create social pressure in favour of mask wearing.

As in the social pressure when those who were are against leaving the EU are told just to accept it ? That social pressure ?

Whilst masks remain a legal requirement, perhaps you should just get on with it and accept it?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Aside from the fact that it’s still law in Scotland in a wide variety of contexts, and is therefore a live debate (Nicola *is* making me wear one), I think it’s necessary to respond to comments that appear to be crafted to try to create social pressure in favour of mask wearing.

Why would social pressure in favour of mask wearing be a bad thing?

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

As in the social pressure when those who were are against leaving the EU are told just to accept it ? That social pressure ?

Whilst masks remain a legal requirement, perhaps you should just get on with it and accept it?

I think perhaps I’ll step away from discussing this with you until you feel able to further the discussion in some way. You’re obviously very cross about something.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think perhaps I’ll step away from discussing this with you until you feel able to further the discussion in some way. You’re obviously very cross about something.

Not cross at all. The point i believe is salient.

The stance you’re taking appears somewhat hypocritical

Originally Posted by jfman

Why would social pressure in favour of mask wearing be a bad thing?

Social pressure in favour of anything whose downsides may outweigh their benefits is a bad thing. I’d have thought that obvious.

Doing something just because Something Must Be Done is not a good reason. Virtue signalling is not a good reason.

Even Nicola has accepted the reality that normal life trumps masks in cafes, nightclubs, crusty separatist marches and music festivals (where people are jammed together like sardines even if they are outdoors). All of those contexts encourage close social contact with strangers over prolonged periods - to a far greater extent than those places where you do still have to wear them, like shopping centres and, in my case, for the hour or so we’re together in a large, high-ceilinged building on Sunday morning.

And yet Scotland’s infection rate is plummeting and the death rate is as low now as it was at the end of last winter’s lockdown, in March. So yes, social pressure in favour of masks is a bad thing, because all it’s likely to achieve is to engender a culture of fear and suspicion. It clearly isn’t driving down infections because masks aren’t mandated in so many places where risk is highest (and because, as you may have observed yourself, the mandate is being routinely ignored in many places anyway).

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Not cross at all. The point i believe is salient.

The stance you’re taking appears somewhat hypocritical

Fine, I’ll bite …

I’m curious where you think I’m being hypocritical. I’ve stated I believe continued mask mandates risk more harm than good. I’ve stated we still wear masks in Sunday worship because that’s the law. I see no conflict in those two positions. There’s nothing hypocritical about observing the law whilst arguing that law is counterproductive.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Social pressure in favour of anything whose downsides may outweigh their benefits is a bad thing. I’d have thought that obvious.

May outweigh their benefits? Scientific evidence on mask wearing is clear.

Anti-maskers are equally applying “social pressure”.

Doing something just because Something Must Be Done is not a good reason. Virtue signalling is not a good reason.

Even Nicola has accepted the reality that normal life trumps masks in cafes, nightclubs, crusty separatist marches and music festivals (where people are jammed together like sardines even if they are outdoors).

I assume the Orange Walks equally went ahead broadly maskless.

Most of the scenarios you describe are where masks are being balanced against economic outcomes.

All of those contexts encourage close social contact with strangers over prolonged periods - to a far greater extent than those places where you do still have to wear them, like shopping centres and, in my case, for the hour or so we’re together in a large, high-ceilinged building on Sunday morning.

And yet Scotland’s infection rate is plummeting and the death rate is as low now as it was at the end of last winter’s lockdown, in March. So yes, social pressure in favour of masks is a bad thing, because all it’s likely to achieve is to engender a culture of fear and suspicion. It clearly isn’t driving down infections because masks aren’t mandated in so many places where risk is highest (and because, as you may have observed yourself, the mandate is being routinely ignored in many places anyway).

My observations are that in places like supermarkets and on trains many people are still wearing them.

Wearing masks doesn’t have to be binary. Nobody wears a mask entertaining guests at home. Or in the pub while drinking. That doesn’t mean there’s no value in masks in other settings - like on busy trains or in supermarkets. Or that social pressure might be more effective at promoting that than a law that is essentially opt-in.

I’m curious where you think I’m being hypocritical. I’ve stated I believe continued mask mandates risk more harm than good. I’ve stated we still wear masks in Sunday worship because that’s the law. I see no conflict in those two positions. There’s nothing hypocritical about observing the law whilst arguing that law is counterproductive.

Another step down the Great Barrington rabbit hole. I’ll have to say I’m quite surprised by it.

The anecdotal evidence of these mental health impacts are spurious at best.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Was on the tube yesterday, it's gone from the majority wearing masks to me being the only one of seven wearing one, makes me fear the worst tbh

What exactly do you fear ?

Its been largely maskless for 2.5 months, and the world didnt end.

If people want to wear one, fine, go for it, as long as they stop being preachy a-holes trying to tell everyone else they 'need' to.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don’t see the issue - if someone wishes to wear a mask (because they believe they could be reducing a risk to others), what’s the problem?

They’re not making you wear one…

Exactly. It is what is known as freedom of choice.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees;36095597%

Good luck with getting on a plane if you’re not prepared to wear a mask.

I’m getting on one on Tuesday, to go to Tenerife and there is no requirement to wear a mask.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul

What exactly do you fear ?

Its been largely maskless for 2.5 months, and the world didnt end.

If people want to wear one, fine, go for it, as long as they stop being preachy a-holes trying to tell everyone else they 'need' to.

You do know it's a condition of carriage to wear one on the underground don't you? Just don't want you to look a fool calling someone a preachy a hole on the tube because they tell you to wear a mask if you ever come down this way.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Paul

What exactly do you fear ?

Its been largely maskless for 2.5 months, and the world didnt end.

If people want to wear one, fine, go for it, as long as they stop being preachy a-holes trying to tell everyone else they 'need' to.

It's the maskless who tend to be self righteous.
Anyone choosing to wear a mask isn't harming anyone, on the contrary, they are protecting you.

As for what to fear:-
BBC News - Portsmouth girl, 15, dies of Covid on day she was due jab
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-58772671
Even the young with no pre existing conditions can succumb to it. Another 121 deaths reported today, in any other year that would have been a major disaster. We still need to take this seriously.