R.I.P Alfie Evans 'Dies’ after life support ends

**Mick** · 24-04-2018, 15:54

This has a similar theme to the Charlie Gard issue https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33705158 , in where parents want to take their child abroad for treatment and the UK Judicial system intervenes and insists life support must end...

However, in Alfie's case, have doctors got it horribly wrong...?

Last night, Alfie Evans life support was ordered to be switched off, all legal avenues of legal recourse had been exhausted, even the Pope intervened and made preparations to bring Alfie to Italy, they even made him an Italian Citizen, however, they still turned off his life support, however after nearly 17 hours, Alfie is still alive, doctors began to intervene again. Doctors are said to be 'gobsmacked' he was breathing unsupported...

Have doctors got it horribly wrong?

Why is it the parents have to fight tooth and nail to save their boy, it is not right at all and now we are in this situation where Alfie is breathing unaided and doctors shocked at this, they have got it horribly wrong IMO. Let the boy go to Italy, if we are not prepared to treat him, let him go to somewhere that will.

I really feel for the parents, who just want to protect their boy...

https://news.sky.com/story/alfie-eva...-says-11344631

Quote:

The father of seriously ill toddler Alfie Evans says his son has been breathing unassisted after his life support machine was switched off.

Parents Tom Evans and Kate James have lost a series of legal challenges to continue treatment for the 23-month-old, who has a degenerative neurological condition.

The couple from Liverpool want to move their son from Alder Hey Children's Hospital to Rome where they say doctors are willing to treat the little boy.

High Court judge, Mr Justice Hayden, will oversee a further hearing on the case in Manchester at around 3.30pm.

**Damien** · 24-04-2018, 16:22

I think it's a very sad story and we have to be careful on the outside into casting judgements on any of those involved.

I am not sure if the Doctors got it wrong but I do assume his doctors have better knowledge than the Pope or the Italian government. I am quite surprised the Italians thought it wise to get involved by giving Alfie citizenship.

Mr K · 24-04-2018, 16:42

Have a feeling the parents and 'supporters' have been manipulated by the media (again). Threats against medical staff again ffs. Who knows what extra suffering this kid has gone through because of this. The fact that he's still breathing doesn't mean he isn't dying sadly.

OLD BOY · 24-04-2018, 16:47

I think that whatever happens, we should be mindful of the boy's suffering.

Although artificially prolonging life is an option so many of us would take for a loved one, we must ensure we are not doing this for purely selfish reasons.

denphone · 24-04-2018, 16:50

Its very difficult for the parents , patient and the medical professionals from my own experiences as being in a specialist hospital for a considerable period of time quite a few times in my life l saw first hand how hard it is for all involved.

adzii_nufc · 25-04-2018, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

Have a feeling the parents and 'supporters' have been manipulated by the media (again). Threats against medical staff again ffs. Who knows what extra suffering this kid has gone through because of this. The fact that he's still breathing doesn't mean he isn't dying sadly.

This.

The facebook armies and sensationalist tabloids are out in force. Absolutely gobsmacked and annoyed that something like this manages to shine a light on the absolute **** residing in this country, with long winded rants labelling judges as pigs, claiming they should be tortured and stabbed and as above, constant threats on NHS staff. Keyboard Doctors giving their 'expert' consultations in Facebook groups, stirring it up further and deliberately spinning false information.

I wish everyone caught up in such behaviour could receive an indefinite ban from using NHS services.

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Sorry, almost forgot, His parents aren't being manipulated either, they're the ones manipulating. Proven liars and will say absolutely anything at this point to suit their own agenda, consistently span anything they've been told by doctors into pure bullshittery at this point. Media seemed to fail to report the father of Alfie Evans had to defend himself on Twitter after someone called him out for stabbing a kid for a push bike a few years back. Admitted it before deleting it and trotting off to meet the pope.

richard s · 25-04-2018, 20:13

Even if they sent the poor little mite to Rome he would still not survive... Certain people think they have a better knowledge of his condition. Shame on them.

pip08456 · 25-04-2018, 20:19

Quote:

Seriously ill toddler Alfie Evans is in a "deep coma" and has a degenerative brain condition which doctors have not been able to diagnose and do not expect him to recover from. Alfie's parents, Tom Evans, 21, and Kate James, 20, have been fighting Alder Hey children's hospital for months over the fate of their 20-month-old son...

...Dad Tom hopes to move Alfie to another specialist children's hospital in Italy to see if they can diagnose and treat his condition.

Source

First it was the Italian hospital could "treat the child", now it's "see if they can diagnose and treat"

I fully understand when a child is involved it is a deeply emotive subject but has anyone thought, just for a minute what quality of life this child is facing if indeed it's life can be extended?

denphone · 25-04-2018, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard s

Even if they sent the poor little mite to Rome he would still not survive... Certain people think they have a better knowledge of his condition. Shame on them.

The only people with a great knowledge of his condition are the trained doctors looking after him.

adzii_nufc · 25-04-2018, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

Source

First it was the Italian hospital could "treat the child", now it's "see if they can diagnose and treat"

I fully understand when a child is involved it is a deeply emotive subject but has anyone thought, just for a minute what quality of life this child is facing if indeed it's life can be extended?

There is a published case, albeit in Japan in which someone beyond saving was deliberately kept alive as long as possible. The trauma is obviously more severe.

Link, NSFL:

Spoiler:

pip08456 · 25-04-2018, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

There is a published case, albeit in Japan in which someone beyond saving was deliberately kept alive as long as possible. The trauma is obviously more severe.

Link, NSFL:

Spoiler:

Hardly a fair comparison and nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

adzii_nufc · 25-04-2018, 21:10

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...y-v-evans.pdf#

Conclusions and findings from 57 onwards. More reliable information than media reportings. Dated Feb. I can assume it's progressed even further since then. A common question is 'How can he be breathing?' You can absolutely breath on your own accord with just the stem itself intact. Regarding the quality of life, I don't believe there is any. Comatose indefinitely if life is supported.

**Mick** · 25-04-2018, 21:30

The way I see it is this. A 2 year old boy or near to 2, will not have the mental capacity to make an informed choice, like you or those who can read this sentence, you can communicate and tell people your wishes. Alfie obviously cannot, I do believe he has been opening his eyes and responding to his parents.

I do not know if Alfie will come under, 'The Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (DoLS)' these are normally associated with people with psychiatric issues, normally vulnerable persons. Someone under a DoLs can have their freedom of rights removed, if it can be ascertained that removing a certain right is of benefit or in their 'best interest', to that vulnerable persons. But as I said, DoLs is normally associated to vulnerable adults, I am not sure if young children of a vulnerable age, come under the same terms, I do not see how they don't.

pip08456 · 25-04-2018, 23:45

I assume Sophia Roper is either a solicitor or Barrister

Quote:

Sophia Roper, who represents Alfie and takes instructions from a court-appointed guardian, agreed, saying any granting of Italian citizenship seemed designed to “frustrate” orders made in domestic courts.

Source

So Alfie has been appointed a guardian by the courts who must by law act in the child's best interests.

**Mick** · 26-04-2018, 00:21

This is getting world wide attention, it's already big news in Italy, due to the Pope, now it's big news in America, Senator Ted Cruz has had a right pop at our NHS and government over their inaction.... He has tweeted the following series of tweets....

Quote:

Ted Cruz @tedcruz 4 hours ago

I urge the UK government to grant the Evans family’s request to treat their precious child in Italy. Americans strive to achieve the promise of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” for all our citizens, no matter how young or old.

And:

Quote:

Ted Cruz

@tedcruz @tedcruz
Alfie’s life support was turned off two days ago. NHS doctors expected that he would pass away within minutes. Again, he fought back; at the time of this writing, he is continuing to breathe without assistance. But time is of the essence.

And:

Quote:

Ted Cruz @tedcruz 4 hours ago
It is a grim reminder that systems of socialized medicine like the National Health Service (NHS) vest the state with power over human lives, transforming citizens into subjects.

He goes on....

Quote:

Ted Cruz @tedcruz 4 hours ago
It is a sad irony that while the people of the UK are busy celebrating a royal birth, its government is brushing off a commoner’s right to life.

These events remind us of the tragic case of Charlie Gard last year.

But UK and European courts have denied their right to seek alternate treatments for their son and instead have forcibly kept him in a hospital. Now they have turned off the ventilator and are waiting for him to die.

Alfie’s parents, Kate James and Tom Evans, wish to seek experimental treatments for what is thought to be a mitochondrial condition. Italy has granted Alfie citizenship and offered to transport him to a Vatican hospital.

Doctors initially thought that Alfie would not survive long, but he fought back time and time again, until a chest infection forced him to rely on a ventilator

Alfie Evans was born on May 9, 2016 in the United Kingdom. When he was only several months old, he was struck by a mysterious illness, and slipped into coma.

I encourage all my fellow Americans to join me today in praying for Alfie and his family.

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/989220803765039107