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Old 09-04-2019, 00:47   #1396
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Re: Brexit



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Old 09-04-2019, 00:48   #1397
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Wrong as per usual. We could have left on March 29th. It was May who chose not to. But she had it within her power to leave, so this notion Parliament was fast to act, they only got the time to act via an extension.

That said. The bill is still as I say, utterly pointless.
No more wrong than your claims that the Parliamentary processes are long, or that we are leaving on March 29th.

May chose not to because there was no Parliamentary support for doing so. Hard Brexit or WTO Brexit (insert any name you please) is dead.

Parliament has plenty of time to further legislate between now and June 30th, if indeed that’s the date the EU opt for. It’d be a good laugh if they forced a year long extension.
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Old 09-04-2019, 00:53   #1398
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Re: Brexit

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Have decided to resign from ERG. Despite excellent Chairmanship by @Jacob_Rees_Mogg who has accommodated all views I can no longer be a member of caucas which is preventing WA4 from passing. Hardcore element of ‘Unicorn’ dreamers now actually endangering #Brexit
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:06   #1399
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
May chose not to because there was no Parliamentary support for doing so. Hard Brexit or WTO Brexit (insert any name you please) is dead
No it is not, No Deal is still on the table if any of the EU 27 reject extension, sorry to burst that over excitable little bubble of yours.

Parliamentary process for passing Bills is usually very slow, so no I am not wrong on them being slow, actually - this unconstitutional bill was fast tracked by a Remain Parliament and Lords. Enough said.

And there is no parliamentary support for a Second Referendum, that you keep going on about, defeated what, three times now ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:09   #1400
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Re: Brexit

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Have decided to resign from ERG. Despite excellent Chairmanship by @Jacob_Rees_Mogg who has accommodated all views I can no longer be a member of caucas which is preventing WA4 from passing. Hardcore element of ‘Unicorn’ dreamers now actually endangering #Brexit
Wow, it's taken him long enough to realise that the true threat to Brexit comes from what he accurately describes as the 'unicorn' dreamers. If people didn't fall for their own nonsense, he would have arrived at this conclusion in time to have voted for Theresa May's deal and encouraged his colleagues to do the same!
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:11   #1401
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Wow, it's taken him long enough to realise that the true threat to Brexit comes from what he accurately describes as the 'unicorn' dreamers. If people didn't fall for their own nonsense, he would have arrived at this conclusion in time to have voted for Theresa May's deal and encouraged his colleagues to do the same!
And why would or should they vote for something that isn't actually Brexit ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:18   #1402
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No it is not, No Deal is still on the table if any of the EU 27 reject extension, sorry to burst that over excitable little bubble of yours.

Parliamentary process for passing Bills is usually very slow, so no I am not wrong on them being slow, actually - this unconstitutional bill was fast tracked by a Remain Parliament and Lords. Enough said.

And there is no parliamentary support for a Second Referendum, that you keep going on about, defeated what, three times now ?
I think until today, the messages were that France might reject an extension. Sky News reported Irish PM Leo Varadkar suggesting it is unlikely any single EU country will veto completely the UK's request. I wouldn't pin your hopes on the EU facilitating a no-deal Brexit.
https://news.sky.com/story/pm-to-mee...ummit-11687662

I guess a second vote may eventually be voted for by Parliament if the Jezza-May Brexit agreement is not concluded.

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:17 ----------

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And why would or should they vote for something that isn't actually Brexit ?
Firstly, because not everyone shares your definition of Brexit and secondly, we're only talking about the Withdrawal Agreement and not the trade deal.
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:39   #1403
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post

Firstly, because not everyone shares your definition of Brexit and secondly, we're only talking about the Withdrawal Agreement and not the trade deal.
How do you know - you asked everyone ?

No you haven't - so you don't speak for everyone either.

I am well aware of what is being discussed.
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:56   #1404
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
How do you know - you asked everyone ?

No you haven't - so you don't speak for everyone either.

I am well aware of what is being discussed.
If you and I have different definitions of what Brexit is then not everyone has the same definition. I don't need to ask everyone. And I doubt that Jezza and May are discussing the weather - they're discussing different forms of Brexit or there'd be nothing to discuss!
My second point is my second reason as to why that ex-ERG member should support a Brexit deal. It's not there to remind you of what is being discussed!

Last edited by 1andrew1; 09-04-2019 at 07:08.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:01   #1405
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Firstly, because not everyone shares your definition of Brexit and secondly, we're only talking about the Withdrawal Agreement and not the trade deal.
So you'd think, but it seems that Labour isn't opposed to the Withdrawal Agreement - only the political statement!

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If you and I have different definitions of what Brexit is then not everyone has the same definition. I don't need to ask everyone. And I doubt that Jezza and May are discussing the weather - they're discussing different forms of Brexit or there'd be nothing to discuss!
It seems to me that only the confused Remainers have different versions of Brexit. You may recall those little phrases: Leave means leave. Brexit means Brexit.

Your version of Brexit isn't the Brexit at all that leavers voted for. You are in the one foot in and one foot out brigade, who don't seem to realise the benefits that could be attained by the UK having its own trade policy on both goods and services.

Speak to pretty well any Leaver in the street and they say they want a clean divorce, not a messy one that leaves us looking after the children, paying over all our money and taking ordsrs from mother in law.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:08   #1406
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
So you'd think, but it seems that Labour isn't opposed to the Withdrawal Agreement - only the political statement!

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------



It seems to me that only the confused Remainers have different versions of Brexit. You may recall those little phrases: Leave means leave. Brexit means Brexit.

Your version of Brexit isn't the Brexit at all that leavers voted for. You are in the one foot in and one foot out brigade, who don't seem to realise the benefits that could be attained by the UK having its own trade policy on both goods and services.

Speak to pretty well any Leaver in the street and they say they want a clean divorce, not a messy one that leaves us looking after the children, paying over all our money and taking ordsrs from mother in law.
There’s plenty of those who want to leave in the Conservative Party, including those who campaigned to leave, who are disagreeing over it. Your claim is demonstrably false.

Leave means leave, Brexit means Brexit, neither of those phrases mean anything.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:05   #1407
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Speak to pretty well any Leaver in the street and they say they want a clean divorce, not a messy one that leaves us looking after the children, paying over all our money and taking ordsrs from mother in law.
Speak to any leaver, and they just want out cos they 'won'. They don't know or care about the economic consequences. When it hits them in the pocket they will, but too late and they can always have someone else to blame.

The current talks with Labour are an agreed charade by both parties for the EU's benefit, until they given us an extension. Got to make it look as though we're working together. Once the extension is given, the talks will miraculously break down. A customs union looks all but certain, there is a majority in parliament for it, it just takes time and process to get there. Brexit will hopefully just become a symbolic thing, a blue passport might really be the only outcome.... Worth it ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:06   #1408
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
There’s plenty of those who want to leave in the Conservative Party, including those who campaigned to leave, who are disagreeing over it. Your claim is demonstrably false.

Leave means leave, Brexit means Brexit, neither of those phrases mean anything.
Yes, they do mean something. It means leave the EU. How can it be said that we have left if we are still in the customs union, taking rules from the EU and applying their tariffs?

Those Conservatives who have voted for BRINO type options tend to be those who just want to get on with the process of leaving. It is not necessarily their preference, is it?

And people like Amber Rudd are remainers who are being courted to support the result of the referendum.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:18   #1409
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Yes, they do mean something. It means leave the EU. How can it be said that we have left if we are still in the customs union, taking rules from the EU and applying their tariffs?

Those Conservatives who have voted for BRINO type options tend to be those who just want to get on with the process of leaving. It is not necessarily their preference, is it?

And people like Amber Rudd are remainers who are being courted to support the result of the referendum.
They mean nothing about the future arrangements. Indeed, Brexit wasn’t even a word until recently, just a media invention.

If we are outside the EU and, as a free sovereign country, make the democratic choice to willingly adhere to rules laid out (in exchange for a free trade area) that’s Brexit.
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:46   #1410
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Re: Brexit

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They mean nothing about the future arrangements. Indeed, Brexit wasn’t even a word until recently, just a media invention.
Well it's been a good three years, and was a evolution from the word Grexit , and we all know how that went.

Quote:
If we are outside the EU and, as a free sovereign country, make the democratic choice to willingly adhere to rules laid out (in exchange for a free trade area) that’s Brexit.
Would only accepted if put as question to the people.

I'd be happy with a referendum on a soft brexit deal or a no deal brexit.

The in or out question has been settled, but a question of what type of brexit we want would be acceptable.

that would be truly democratic.
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