The state benefits system mega-thread.

My wife was a bank clerk on a YTS scheme and now is a bank manager, so some good came of it for her.

I went on a YOPs scheme in the early 80s, and now I am in IT senior management - these schemes made a difference.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I went on a YOPs scheme in the early 80s, and now I am in IT senior management - these schemes made a difference.

I'm trying to do the maths.

16-18, 32 years ago, and you're 57.

Originally Posted by Gary L

I'm trying to do the maths.

16-18, 32 years ago, and you're 57.

I may have got the scheme name wrong, but in 1980 I attended the Control Data Institute Programming Technology course (Assembler, COBOL, and RPG2, and some basic Systems Analysis) - it was for 18-25 year olds looking to re-train, and was funded by whatever the JobCentre was called in those days.

Update - it came back to me; it was a TOPS (Training Opportunities Scheme) course.

I had just left the RAF, and there wasn't much call in Civvy Street for someone who could speak Russian, take morse at 45 wpm, and had a markman's badge...

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I may have got the scheme name wrong, but in 1980 I attended the Control Data Institute Programming Technology course (Assembler, COBOL, and RPG2, and some basic Systems Analysis) - it was for 18-25 year olds looking to re-train, and was funded by whatever the JobCentre was called in those days.

I had just left the RAF, and there wasn't much call in Civvy Street for someone who could speak Russian, take morse at 45 wpm, and had a markman's badge...

Did you shoot anyone, put Russian to good use and use Morse code at 45wpm?

Originally Posted by peanut

Did you shoot anyone, put Russian to good use and use Morse code at 45wpm?

Whilst in the RAF, yes* - outside, not as often....

*shot at people - not sure if I hit them....

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Whilst in the RAF, yes* - outside, not as often....

*shot at people - not sure if I hit them....

Anyone shoot you back?

obviously they missed

Originally Posted by Gary L

Anyone shoot you back?

obviously they missed

Yes, I have been shot at (which was why I was shooting back).

[solitaire]

Originally Posted by peanut

No surprise here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25886638

I'm sure this will be divisive, some will see it as the Tory reform is working, and some will see it as the total opposite.

You can also see that they want to help those that are sick back into work. Now I can't get my head around that. Not when you have forms to fill that is based on trick questions that is geared up to make you fail. The forever changing goalposts. Then there's atos on top which is also geared up to make the sick fail. So when they say they want to help, in what way are they really helping?

Then you'll read that 'millions' apparently have withdrawn their claims. Is that because they have something to hide? Maybe, but the amount of times I wanted to just give up just to be left alone, sod the impossible forms and all the stress that comes with it. I don't think it's that black and white.

The Mail is having a field day with the 'Benefit Street' program, with quotes of the sick playing slot machines like there's nothing wrong with them etc. All damning but the vilification is seemingly constant but it's working.

I have witnessed first hand to be called 'a cheat', why? Because I don't look ill or use aids such as a wheelchair. I would do my hardest not to appear sick to anyone I meet, that's being human and nothing else.

Yet for all those that think the reform is working or think it's easy to just fill in a form and claim everything, live the high life and laugh at people paying taxes then you're ignorant of the facts. The truth is that you're also condemning the genuine and making their lives a lot harder in the process.

I've also been accused of wanting the Gov to fail, just so I can bitch and moan about it. Things said like that are is just pathetic and ignorant. When it affects me in this way then bitching and moaning the last thing on my mind. I do wish for something different, just something that is fair and a whole lot more honest.

Being ill, sick, disabled etc the lines are now blurred enough to just group us as a 'benefit claimant' and nothing more and sh*t sticks.

And no I don't feel sorry for myself. I feel frustrated for those that don't have a clue.

You have my sympathy, my wife and I are not looking forward to the next few weeks. We have just received the letter asking for all the details of my son. He is aged 38 and has never worked due to being special needs. He cannot read or write, cross the road without help and needs help with personal hygiene. Fourteen tears of schooling was unable to teach him much, so how does the Government think that someone sitting in an office can now rule him "fit for work" from a letter's details.

More to the point, where are the jobs nowadays and the promised help for disabled that are ruled fit to work?

[weenie]

What makes me MAD is Sometimes the New Rules are bollocks I personally do not agree with ATOS doctors employed by the Government to make a decision for some illnesses as I know someone who has crohn's disease and they were took off ESA because of them and because of this decision they made her condition worse because of the stress they induced on them. They landed in hospital because of a flare up. This person needs B12 injection every 10 weeks because they had a bowel resection as her body cannot absorb B12 through food intake they also suffer increased vulnerability to infections...
They also have thinning and weakening of the bones (osteopenia and osteoporosis) this was because of long term use of steroids through this really horrid illness, she appealed and won but it was at the cost of her health as while in hospital they put her on a thing called the elemental diet to rest her bowel but it took 4 weeks in hospital before she was discharged through the stress all this had caused at the hands of the ATOS doctor and his decision. This doctor spent all but 30 minutes with them and assessed them fit for work... despite their specialist and own doctor disagreeing with him how he came up with that decision is really beyond me and something I will never understand. They appealed and won and the award given to them was indefinite they were also awarded DLA middle rate because of the attention they needed at night something they had thought they could not claim for as they had been told they would not get, without these benefits they would be snookered as they really are not fit to work...It really makes me so MAD that someone can take someone who really needs benefits off them, if she could work she would but unfortunately they could never hold down a job also this illness is through no fault of her own something she was born with so...what they need to realise is that some people who claim NEED THEM AND ARE NOT PLAYING ON THEIR ILLNESS THEY ARE ILL

[Osem]

Originally Posted by solitaire

You have my sympathy, my wife and I are not looking forward to the next few weeks. We have just received the letter asking for all the details of my son. He is aged 38 and has never worked due to being special needs. He cannot read or write, cross the road without help and needs help with personal hygiene. Fourteen tears of schooling was unable to teach him much, so how does the Government think that someone sitting in an office can now rule him "fit for work" from a letter's details.

More to the point, where are the jobs nowadays and the promised help for disabled that are ruled fit to work?

I'd be very surprised if you have any problems although I know that the natural tendency is to dread such things. I am certain that your son will not be ruled fit to work and from what you've written nor should he be. Best of luck!

[weenie]

Originally Posted by solitaire

You have my sympathy, my wife and I are not looking forward to the next few weeks. We have just received the letter asking for all the details of my son. He is aged 38 and has never worked due to being special needs. He cannot read or write, cross the road without help and needs help with personal hygiene. Fourteen tears of schooling was unable to teach him much, so how does the Government think that someone sitting in an office can now rule him "fit for work" from a letter's details.

More to the point, where are the jobs nowadays and the promised help for disabled that are ruled fit to work?

If your son gets took off his benefits go to your MP as this really would be disgusting, he is entitled to these benefits but I'm sure you will be fine try and not worry. My thoughts are with you and many like you it just does not seem fair the worry these people cause.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by weenie

Snip..

To be fair, they aren't too bothered by whatever the illness or disability you have. It's whether or not you can perform the simplest of tasks.

As I stated earlier the ESA50 form is designed to make people fail or to be called in to see an ATOS agent. This is why so many people win on appeal because that is when you are most likely to be represented by someone professional and they could/might include your medical history.

For those that haven't seen one of these forms, see here....

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...717/esa-50.pdf

With example questions such as 'Can you reach your top pocket' to 'Can you press a button' and 'Can you pick up a £1 coin'. So even those with severe illness should be able going by the examples set out feel like they have no choice other than state 'Yes' or 'No problems'.

The trouble is they are always changing the questions. For the like of Crohn's sufferers, they've now included an answer to the question of bowel control which is 'Yes – but only if I cannot reach a toilet quickly' - Quite bizarre as if you tick that, then you fail as for that question you will not qualify for the support group. All the questions are loaded, and it's designed so you don't have the space to write anything either.

What people get wrong is that they don't seek help in filling out this form, it looks easy enough doesn't it, quite short too, but it is apart from DLA the hardest form to fill in properly. Also the form somewhere states if you have any info from any doc, specialist, consultant etc etc to send with it the form, but you only get 8 weeks dead to fill it and send it back. Getting info isn't easy, asking for notes isn't easy, some times you might have to pay and some times the info just isn't good enough. But you have to do it! Ask you GP for a thorough medical letter outlining all your probs, medications, and get them to explain in the letter how it affects you. Get a copy of your medical notes, I paid £50 for my life history and shows all the info I need if and when I need it.

And to 'Weenie' I too suffer from severe Crohn's and take B12 jabs every 12 weeks, been on all the liquid diets, all the meds from preds to the bigs guns that are immuno suppressants (chemo drugs, anti rejection drugs), MTX, 6MP etc

[weenie]

[QUOTE=peanut;35666252]To be fair, they aren't too bothered by whatever the illness or disability you have. It's whether or not you can perform the simplest of tasks.

I hope you feel better soon, and they should be bothered as they are making some people's illnesses worse by the stress they cause

[peanut]

Originally Posted by weenie

I hope you feel better soon, and they should be bothered as they are making some people's illnesses worse by the stress they cause

Of course they should, it should be down to the GP, specialist or consultant to decide whether you're fit enough to work. Not a system that's designed to cut costs or a suit that has no knowledge of what the illness is and what it means. Just because some don't look ill doesn't mean they are not very ill.

My point is that there are people who think that the ill are being looking after, and that they do get what they need/deserve but that's always not the case - far from it. They said a million have been found fit enough to work, yet I'd like to know just how many failed just on the basis that the tests are just badly designed so how many people are suffering.

As for the stress they cause, well I don't think they are too bothered by that. The truth is even though you are ill, sick or whatever and you do managed to 'win' a claim, the stress (though fear is a better word) never goes away because the next time you fill in the form you just might not quality. EDITED (The max allowance 'normally' for ESA is 3 years, the majority has to redo the form on a yearly basis - though just been told that some do get awarded with no set period which is new info for me so ).