Brexit discussion

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No, Christ wasn’t to blame

He was being sarcastic and you full well know it. It is not the fault of Christ but your grammar in the previous message was so bad, it looked like you were blaming Jesus.

If you could learn to type (and quit lying while you were at it) it would help.

So how dare you!

Fine but how about you return the favor and quit making up random crap about everyone, too?

You have done it twice to me, in the space of a couple weeks and you know full well that Ianch99 was not being serious, making a joke - due to your inability to articulate.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

I am accusing him of lying, not you...

My bad .. I have removed my post to stop any confusion.

[Chloé Palmas]

Me too - hopefully a staff member will come in and clean the entire chain.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

<SNIP>

You have highlighted the important aspect of this vote that sets it apart from the others. The older generation voted for their vision of the UK's future, a future that a lot of them will not see. They decided, which is their right, the future of their grandchildren but here's the rub: the people who will inherit their decision, overwhelmingly, did not want it.

It highlights a paradox: normally, throughout human evolution, parents & grandparents make decisions that will better, financially, socially, etc. their offspring. In a lot of situations, the older generations have gone without so that their offspring will have a better chance in life. In this case, the older generation have determined that the future they want (but a lot will not see) is the opposite of that the younger generation desire.

You have trotted out a well used but very shallow point. The younger generation, by that I mean people in the 18 to 25 band, and likely those who voted for that awful Jeremy Corbyn, have no real life experience on which to base their voting decision. They saw their future on the EU question very much in an idealistic sense.

The older, wiser people, would have voted for remain had they not have had grounds for dissatisfaction with the EU. The older generation had wisdom on their side (whether leave or remain), the younger generation had idealism.

The older folk have not necessarily voted for the future they want; the are not stupid - they know they won't be here at some point. But they do want the younger generation not to have to suffer under the Brussels turds.

Finally, and to preserve your credibility as I have asked for this twice before, you should do us all the courtesy of confirming the Churchill quote you made a few posts back. I can't find it and would really be interested to know what you meant.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Trying to skew the argument to an attack on you and your personal family is beneath you. You know full well that the overwhelmingly majority of younger voters wanted to Remain and an equally overwhelmingly majority of older voters did

Yes, the younger voters did tend to vote remain (I won't sink to the level of saying that this was largely due to Labour's lies about the tuition fees because I don't know whether that was the significant factor) but my point was, as I'm sure you are aware, that older voters on the whole were mindful of the impact of the referendum on the younger generation.

Why would older people vote for a worse future for their sons, daughters and grandchildren? Your argument doesn't make sense unless you yourself don't give a fig. In which case, I just hope for the sake of your offspring that your attitude changes with maturity.

---------- Post added at 20:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

He was being sarcastic and you full well know it. It is not the fault of Christ but your grammar in the previous message was so bad, it looked like you were blaming Jesus.

If you could learn to type (and quit lying while you were at it) it would help.



Fine but how about you return the favor and quit making up random crap about everyone, too?

You have done it twice to me, in the space of a couple weeks and you know full well that Ianch99 was not being serious, making a joke - due to your inability to articulate.

Of course he was, and so was I. Did you see what I did there?

Incidentally, I am completely at a loss about the alleged bad grammar and 'making up random c**p'. What the hell are you talking about? Would you care to elaborate so I can give a sensible response to your post?

By the way, we are debating issues here, no need to get personal.

[jonbxx]

One of the reasons I wanted to remain was because of my kids. I don’t really talk about it much on here as it is more about feelings and a little self serving but here it is as we are talking about age...

My kids are 10 and 12 and as they get older, I would very much like them to work abroad. Casual work would be fine - strap on a rucksack and get out there and do bar or restaurant work for the summer. I was lucky enough to work abroad when I was 21 and it changed my outlook on life completely. It’s tough moving to another country, it definitely makes you grow up quick! It also gives you a much broader outlook on different nationalities. That opportunity has been taken away from them and that’s a real shame.

Yes, I am sure they will still be able to get jobs abroad but no way as easily as they could if we stayed in the EU.

See told you it was a bit fluffy and self serving!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Trying to skew the argument to an attack on you and your personal family is beneath you. You know full well that the overwhelmingly majority of younger voters wanted to Remain and an equally overwhelmingly majority of older voters did not:

How Britain Voted



Play the ball and not the man ..

Tell me exactly how saying I care about my offspring is 'skewing' the argument. As it is true, it puts the lie and the nonsense to your argument. Most of the older generation who have children feel this way.

Don't you think you will think that way when you mature?

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

One of the reasons I wanted to remain was because of my kids. I don’t really talk about it much on here as it is more about feelings and a little self serving but here it is as we are talking about age...

My kids are 10 and 12 and as they get older, I would very much like them to work abroad. Casual work would be fine - strap on a rucksack and get out there and do bar or restaurant work for the summer. I was lucky enough to work abroad when I was 21 and it changed my outlook on life completely. It’s tough moving to another country, it definitely makes you grow up quick! It also gives you a much broader outlook on different nationalities. That opportunity has been taken away from them and that’s a real shame.

Yes, I am sure they will still be able to get jobs abroad but no way as easily as they could if we stayed in the EU.

See told you it was a bit fluffy and self serving!

No, you confirm my argument nicely, and it is a human argument rather than a strictly political one. Shame you are on the other side of my argument, though!

Seriously, I do understand your point, which I think concentrated on the opportunities youngsters have at that age. My decision was based more on the economy, and ensuring that my kids and theirs as they get older are able to share in the wealth that a healthy and vibrant economy can bring.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Tell me exactly how saying I care about my offspring is 'skewing' the argument. As it is true, it puts the lie and the nonsense to your argument. Most of the older generation who have children feel this way.

Don't you think you will think that way when you mature?

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------


No, you confirm my argument nicely, and it is a human argument rather than a strictly political one. Shame you are on the other side of my argument, though!

Seriously, I do understand your point, which I think concentrated on the opportunities youngsters have at that age. My decision was based more on the economy, and ensuring that my kids and theirs as they get older are able to share in the wealth that a healthy and vibrant economy can bring.

My main reason for voting the way I did was the economy too, working g for a company that trades internationally distils down just how simple trade is in the EU. Through working various places, I would consider some Germans (especially) Belgians and Swedes amongst my best friends. The kid thing was second but still very important.

If you put the economy in there and then go back to Norman Tebbits ‘get on your bike and find work’ speech, then the distance we can cycle has become significantly less.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You can keep telling me until you are blue in the face but it will not make you right The facts are that 37% of the electorate decided the economic future of the entire nation for a generation based on a campaign of lies and misinformation.
[SEPH]: Fact or not, the democratic process is what governed the referendum result. Anyway, by corollary to your crass argument, 34% of the eligible population voted Remain. And by further corollary, 29% of the eligible population didn't vote remain (or leave). You then chuck in the "economic future" card. Again, utterly crass. The EU issue is not just a matter of economics. The UK is large enough to do very well in future. The EU question is very much about who tells us what to do and how they go about it. The EU question is very much about not standing for German hegemony and their engineering of the Euro (a point you have avoided answering). The EU question is very much about rejecting French manipulation of farming policy. You are very shallow in your arguments.

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

<SNIP>

The arrogance is astounding! The "Old People" "want the best", the "Old People" have "saved" the "Younger People" .. come off it. They didn't give a stuff what the younger generation wanted or needed.

Just be honest, they voted for what they wanted and for no other reason.
[SEPH]: Are you old? As I've said before in a response to an equally shallow set of words from you, the older people voted with wisdom and experience behind them. They did not want to wish that on their children and grandchildren who did not have wisdom behind then when they voted.

In an earlier post you prayed in aid to your shallow argument a so-called quote from Churchill. I can't find that quote and I've asked several times for you to point me (and everyone else) to the actual words issued by the great man. You're at perfect liberty to ignore the challenge, but if you can't substantiate what you said your credibility is shot.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

One of the reasons I wanted to remain was because of my kids. I don’t really talk about it much on here as it is more about feelings and a little self serving but here it is as we are talking about age...

My kids are 10 and 12 and as they get older, I would very much like them to work abroad. Casual work would be fine - strap on a rucksack and get out there and do bar or restaurant work for the summer. I was lucky enough to work abroad when I was 21 and it changed my outlook on life completely. It’s tough moving to another country, it definitely makes you grow up quick! It also gives you a much broader outlook on different nationalities. That opportunity has been taken away from them and that’s a real shame.

Yes, I am sure they will still be able to get jobs abroad but no way as easily as they could if we stayed in the EU.

See told you it was a bit fluffy and self serving!

This is an entirely respectable point of view. I know many parents who voted remain in deference to their kids and their perception of how they could take advantage of European integration. It's prolly why the result was 52/48 and not 55/45.

As I've said before, I'm not going to complain if we stay in the EU provided we keep our picador sticks sharp for prodding the Brussels turds. Also we need to keep sharp about German hegemony, keep in mind the German engineering the Euro to their advantage and French objection to CAP reform.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

By the way, we are debating issues here, no need to get personal.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Don't you think you will think that way when you mature?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

He means when you grow up [ it's anyone's guess what you might mature into]

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I know. Glad I made you laugh. This thread needs to lighten up.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I know. Glad I made you laugh. This thread needs to lighten up.

So true! I will try and be "grown up"

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

For those who are just too lazy to do some research, here is the text of Churchill's speech in 1957 where he expresses his wish for a United Europe and the UK to join a European free trade area:

The Unwritten Alliance By Winston S. Churchill

Putting this here since it's a positive development about the economy which is kind Brexit related: https://order-order.com/2018/06/28/b...ssie-warships/

Just breaking in Australia, possibly the biggest #DespiteBrexit yet: British defence giant BAE Systems has won the tender to design and manage the construction of nine anti-submarine warships. The deal represents the biggest peacetime building program in Australian naval history and is worth $35 billion, or £20 billion.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

Putting this here since it's a positive development about the economy which is kind Brexit related: https://order-order.com/2018/06/28/b...ssie-warships/

Good news for once.