Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[phormwatch]

I just saw a post from a mate on a message board who wrote to several MPs/MEPs. With his permission, I quote:

"I've just noticed a reply from one of my MEPs - Edward McMillan-Scott MEP ( Yorkshire & Humber , UK , Conservative) Vice-President of the European Parliament.

He is opposed to the way Phorm has been introduced without telling customers.

He also brought to my attention the following website:

www.antiphorm.com "

Another potential invite/ally?

[Bonglet]

Is the 80/20 pia finsihed yet thats well over a month behind now isnt it ?.

Simon hasnt shown his face in oo quite a while now.

[Dephormation]

Just received my custom spreadshirt. Quality is excellent, can recommend them.

Mines much less subtle than Alex's design. STOP PHORM in monster size letters and big graphics.

Alex's tasteful design is here...
http://nodpi.spreadshirt.net/en/GB/Shop
or you can design your own less subtle message (don't forget to select a basic white t-shirt)...
http://www.spreadshirt.net/en/EU/Cre...t/Designer-59/

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

Speaking of security gurus - you may have heard of Bruce Schneier. He's a bit of a heavyweight in the IT security world. He releases and monthly newsletter on security.

His website can be found here:

http://www.schneier.com/

I was surprised to find out that he is 'Chief Security Technology Officer' of BT. I wrote him an email, before I knew this fact and asked why he hadn't written any articles about Phorm. He replied that the technology was 'not particularly interesting'.

Technically, this may be true. However, he also writes about all sorts of stuff relating to the intersection of technology and privacy and social issues - which is why I was all the more surprised at the time.

In light of the new information, I wouldn't be surprised if his reticence has anything to do with his position. Though this is mere speculation on my part.

It's quite a dilemma for him after co-authoring books such as "Electronic Privacy Papers. Interestingly one of his essays http://www.schneier.com/essay-115.html has the sentence "We're giving up privacy without getting any security in return.". Not quite the same but his position may be similar to that of of Simon (80/20) of Privacy international. Do you bite the hand that feeds you or do you keep a clear conscience. Maybe we should ask the guy? Another interesting essay "Why "Anonymous" Data Sometimes Isn't" http://www.schneier.com/essay-200.html.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by warescouse

It's quite a dilemma for him after co-authoring books such as "Electronic Privacy Papers. Interestingly one of his essays http://www.schneier.com/essay-115.html has the sentence "We're giving up privacy without getting any security in return.". Not quite the same but his position may be similar to that of of Simon (80/20) of Privacy international. Do you bite the hand that feeds you or do you keep a clear conscience. Maybe we should ask the guy? Another interesting essay "Why "Anonymous" Data Sometimes Isn't" http://www.schneier.com/essay-200.html.

I've emailed him to ask his views on the security implications of DPI being used for targetted advertising and mentioned NebuAd - particularly with respect to the security of personal identifiers within the system. I haven't mentioned Phorm. As he lives in the USA (California) he will be aware of NebuAd. I mentioned that Steve Gibson was podcasting on the subject as well.

[Ravenheart]

Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters

Ok Guys

Just got a response from Steve Gibson:

Hi ******,

You are welcome to use the image at the TWiT page, and, yes, any anti-Phorm campaigns are also welcome to use the pic and links, etc. We're all on the same side in this issue.

Thanks for your note, for your interest ... and all the best,

The image to link is at the URL below:

<<http://twit.tv/sites/all/themes/twit/img/podcasts/podcast_2.jpg>>

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

and create the link back to:

http://twit.tv/sn151

This will be more professional looking. And as Steve Gibson says above, all Anti Phorm Campaigns are welcome to use

Thanks for this PM, I've sent an email to Steve thanking him for the excellent coverage on Phorm and for allowing us to use the image, as it never hurts to say thank you

As you say it does make things look a little more professional, and I've updated my blog posts accordingly.

Thanks again PM

[davews]

You should also link to Steve's securitynow page - http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm which has all versions of the audio together with the very useful transcripts. twit.tv is Leo's site (who seems in this instance to be agreeing with Steve, but he doesn't always!) and only has the high resolution audio.

Dave

[Ravenheart]

Originally Posted by davews

You should also link to Steve's securitynow page - http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm which has all versions of the audio together with the very useful transcripts. twit.tv is Leo's site (who seems in this instance to be agreeing with Steve, but he doesn't always!) and only has the high resolution audio.

Dave

Aye Dave, I've included links to the Security Now page already, as the transcripts are extremely useful

[Rchivist]

For anyone wanting the source of the "we can see the entire internet" quote - its here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/bu...in&oref=slogin

and dates from 20th March or thereabouts. It was said by Virasb Vahidi, Chief Operating Officer of Phorm, in a US press conference.

It took a while to find, as all the quotes of the quote were about "we can see the WHOLE internet" which is a misquote.

Worth resurrecting that quote, as I don't think it is the sort of thing Phorm want us to remember (unless they are trying to sell OIX spaces).

[ilago]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Is the 80/20 pia finsihed yet thats well over a month behind now isnt it ?.

Simon hasnt shown his face in oo quite a while now.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that 80/20's contract had been terminated or that Phorm as the "employer" of the services had decided not to publish the work. When the meeting videos failed to appear I thought 80/20 may have been having difficulties with their client.

Consultants often provide this sort of service, only to have it end up in a filing cabinet somewhere. I've worked as a consulting engineer and a project manager in a different field and it happens all the time. It's not uncommon for clients to shop around for a consultant that agrees with their already determined opinion.

Simon may not have been prepared to sacrifice his integrity to suit his client. I've walked away from clients that have done something similar.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by R Jones

For anyone wanting the source of the "we can see the entire internet" quote - its here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/bu...in&oref=slogin

and dates from 20th March or thereabouts. It was said by Virasb Vahidi, Chief Operating Officer of Phorm, in a US press conference.

It took a while to find, as all the quotes of the quote were about "we can see the WHOLE internet" which is a misquote.

Worth resurrecting that quote, as I don't think it is the sort of thing Phorm want us to remember (unless they are trying to sell OIX spaces).

You maybe could have pointed out the article also finished with the quote by Virasb Vahidi “Because we feel very comfortable that our claims are true.”

So they cannot deny it either.

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------

Originally Posted by ilago

cut...

Simon may not have been prepared to sacrifice his integrity to suit his client. I've walked away from clients that have done something similar.

In view of the great work done by Simon in the past I for one would sincerely like to think this was the case. But this is slightly off topic.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by warescouse

You maybe could have pointed out the article also finished with the quote by Virasb Vahidi “Because we feel very comfortable that our claims are true.”

So they cannot deny it either.

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------


In view of the great work done by Simon in the past I for one would sincerely like to think this was the case. But this is slightly off topic.

yes I saw those quotes also about inspecting the technology. Strange - I don't see any reference since to the independent audit of their installed software in the BT servers or in the Phorm side of the equation. Promised - not delivered. Maybe Virasb is feeling a bit less comfortable nowadays.

Compare the Virasb quote with this from the CEO of NebuAd.

"Google knows what they do on your site, but we know everywhere you go, the sites you stop at and ads you see"

These companies all seem to be cut from the same cloth.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by Peter N

Compare the Virasb quote with this from the CEO of NebuAd.

"Google knows what they do on your site, but we know everywhere you go, the sites you stop at and ads you see"

These companies all seem to be cut from the same cloth.

Yes, but not only the same cloth. Some of them seem have had links in the past in some way to either spyware, adware, rootkits, or combinations of. (Or does that come under your meaning of same cloth?).

Isn't it amazing how any involved in those practices have in my opinion suddenly seen the errors of their old ways and have attempted to 'cast away' those nasty linkages. Strange also that they all have similar ideas and also seem to be singing from a similar song sheet. (Yet the words seem not too dissimilar from those uttered in the past?)
ref: Wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/200512111...com/index.html
and what does f-secure mention about it.
I refer to http://www.f-secure.com/sw-desc/apropos.shtml

"PeopleOnPage produces the Apropos family of spyware"

and who produced PeopleOnPage. I leave that for any readers who don't know to find out for themselves.

If you get stuck try here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm

[ilago]

Originally Posted by Peter N

Compare the Virasb quote with this from the CEO of NebuAd.

"Google knows what they do on your site, but we know everywhere you go, the sites you stop at and ads you see"

These companies all seem to be cut from the same cloth.

Following up from some information on the mediapost site I found some other interesting references I don't recall seeing here before although they date back to April.

http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3628943

"TNS Global found that 57 percent of the people surveyed said they are not comfortable with advertisers using their browsing history to serve ads even when they believe their names and other personal information is not being revealed. Fifty-four percent said they delete their cookies at least twice monthly."
...snip...
""First of all TRUSTe is following this issue from a privacy perspective," said Hodge, noting TRUSTe works with "companies that represent the entire value chain" including advertisers, ad networks, publishers and portals."
...snip.. they forgot the 57% of consumers that don't like it ....
"Unfortunately, I don't have the silver bullet for it," she conceded. "But there are some good models out there taking place. It's definitely TRUSTe's position that all the companies benefitting from behavioral targeting need to be working together to make sure consumers feel like they understand more about what's happening."

These two reports also - warning pdf links

http://www.networkadvertising.org/ne...nts_FTC_BT.pdf

http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/behav...stecomment.pdf