Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[icsys]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Yeah just automated responses, but I have his private email address now so I will give that a try, been a bit busy this afternoon.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------



Nooo, even then it does not comply with PECR. Firstly 3e does not remove the requirement of explicit informed consent. Secondly WebWise is a completely seperate entity to the OIX platform, so even if they managed to palm off some value added service for WebWise (the anti-phishing) it -still- doesn't cover them for the behavioural profiling for OIX which has nothing to do with the Anti-Phishing and is purely a commercial venture based around advertising.

Why are so many people seeming to try and make excuses for Phorm/BT today? We need to stop second guessing ourselves here folks otherwise any new readers are going to think there is some doubt over whether or not it is illegal, let me make it very clear there is no doubt whatsoever that without consent this technology is ILLEGAL. Myself and other more qualified experts have very thoroughly analysed the law on these issues months ago and there are no grey areas.

Alexander Hanff

No excuses! I did use the words...to 'attempt' to comply with , and not just 'to comply'.
I have added the fact that explicit informed consent is 'still' required to that post.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Phormic Acid

All accessible web traffic was originally going to be mirrored, although not passed right through the profiler.

Phorm launches data pimping fight back

So if I'm opted out, data passes straight between me and the website I'm visiting? It doesn't enter Phorm's systems at all?

Marc Burgess: What happens is that the data is still mirrored to the profiler but the data digest is never made and the rest of the chain never occurs.

However, this soon changed. The change has been restated a number of times, but I think the following quote represents the first time.

Phorm’s Answers (part3)

phail: Virgin and BT are both currently operating an OPT-OUT solution, which would mean all users are opted in by default, and even if they are opted out OUR data is mirrored on phorm servers, regardless of whether the data is used, you ARE collecting it.

KentErtugrul: When a user opts out, the system is OFF. There is no data collection at all

The 18 May amendment to Richard Clayton’s analysis does include this, as one of the updates provided by Phorm.

The Phorm “Webwise” System

Phorm also say that “in many ISP implementations (all of the UK ones for instance)” the mirroring system described in paragraph 2 above, can be set to only mirror the traffic of users who have a valid UID. Thus the traffic of those who have the “OPTED OUT” cookie (or are cookie-disabled) is not mirrored and does not reach the out-of-band machine.

Even without any Phorm-provided equipment, ISPs already rummage through your HTTP headers. They need to record the host names in all the URLs you access, to comply with the Home Office Voluntary Code of Practice on Data Retention.

I wouldn't trust that at all. I heard and saw Kent state with his own voice and lips that opted out traffic -still- goes through the profiler but simply doesn't get passed onto the channel server. I was about 4 feet away from him at the time. Furthermore, notice the choice of words:

When a user opts out, the system is OFF. There is no data collection at all

He is very careful to avoid saying anything about the profiler and simply says no collection, which knowing Kent probably means "We don't send the data to the channel server" (which is the same as he said 4 months ago at the meeting). I don't for one second believe that they have redesigned the system to completely bypass that Layer 7 Switch for opted out users, not even a fraction of a second.

Oh and lets not forget he has also claimed that there is no data collected when the system is opted-in, in fact that has been his biggest PR strategy. The man wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and waved an OIX banner in his face.

If he wants me to believe that I will need to see real proof because frankly his word doesn't cut it and it is a complete contradiction of himself for the system to work in the way you just described it. Rule of thumb - "Don't trust a damn word that come's out of Kent's mouth."

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

I think people are so used to the thread being so busy they feel that have to write something and so in the absence of any new data they are second guessing what we already know.

Why not just take an evening off, things are very positive for us at the moment so relax a little whilst we have the opportunity.

1. Still no trials.
2. NebuAd frozen out of the US market by 4 or 5 ISPs now.
3. Baroness Miller addressing the Home Office.
4. Meeting with Earl of Northesk.
5. The Protest.
6. Home Office FOI showing BT panicking.
7. Phorm shares getting lower than a prom queen at a limbo dance.

And that is just off the top of my head, I am sure there are more reasons to be happy than that.

So chill for a couple of hours, it won't last long we will have to be back on the front line again before you know it, so enjoy it whilst you can. There is plenty of information right here already to keep even the most interested reader busy for a month.

Alexander Hanff

[Deko]

EOD PHRM.L Trading update.


Bid 925.00
Ask 1000.00
Price 962.50
Change +0 (+0.00%)
Last Trade 935.00 (14:08:00)
Trading Vol. 3,701

Have a good weekend guys

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by Deko

EOD PHRM.L Trading update.


Bid 925.00
Ask 1000.00
Price 962.50
Change +0 (+0.00%)
Last Trade 935.00 (14:08:00)
Trading Vol. 3,701

Have a good weekend guys

Actually the price is down as it closed at 935.00 which puts it down -27.50 (-2.86%) or at least that is what Google Finance is showing. But yes a good end to the week

Alexander Hanff

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Actually the price is down as it closed at 935.00 which puts it down -27.50 (-2.86%) or at least that is what Google Finance is showing. But yes a good end to the week

Alexander Hanff

Which isn't a bad result for the day considering.... its an American Holiday

[vicz]

At the risk of repeating myself repeating myself: Does phorm still profile your surfing if you opt out? WE DON'T KNOW. Only phorm know, and they are not telling. As the recent posts show, we have heard different stories from different people at different times. EVEN BT DOES NOT KNOW even though they might think (hope) that they do. The fact is they are selling off our data stream to a bunch of crooks without any way of verifying what is being done with it or what may be done with it. And as was pointed out earlier, all traces are eventually deleted, thus neatly avoiding the Google/Viacom situation. It might be worth asking the BT shareholders if they are happy that their board is being so reckless - they are at the mercy of phorm and Ertegrul's collective integrity - not a place I would wish to be!

[Florence]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Yeah just automated responses, but I have his private email address now so I will give that a try, been a bit busy this afternoon.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------



Nooo, even then it does not comply with PECR. Firstly 3e does not remove the requirement of explicit informed consent. Secondly WebWise is a completely seperate entity to the OIX platform, so even if they managed to palm off some value added service for WebWise (the anti-phishing) it -still- doesn't cover them for the behavioural profiling for OIX which has nothing to do with the Anti-Phishing and is purely a commercial venture based around advertising.

Why are so many people seeming to try and make excuses for Phorm/BT today? We need to stop second guessing ourselves here folks otherwise any new readers are going to think there is some doubt over whether or not it is illegal, let me make it very clear there is no doubt whatsoever that without consent this technology is ILLEGAL. Myself and other more qualified experts have very thoroughly analysed the law on these issues months ago and there are no grey areas.

Alexander Hanff

Agreed we can second guess all we like but the true facts are all that count, Phorm /webwise intercept you connection no matter how you try to cover this over it is illegal..... from there the scripting is no matter there is no benefit to the customer.

[davethejag]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Believe me I have tried and still am trying to do this but he is incredibly difficult to get hold of, all emails get standard auto responses and phone messages go un-answered.

I was given a contact in the HoC who may be able to contact him and I sent them an email yesterday so lets hope that works out.

Alexander Hanff

I wrote to David Davis recently and "inphormed" him, I did say that I expected that he had already heard about Phorm though. I received a standard written reply on his behalf this morning thanking me for my support etc. but no mention of Phorm. I am now waiting for a reply to my letter, which they have told me is comming, from my MP David Cameron.

Dave.

[Dephormation]

On a side topic for a moment, I've updated my graph of BT shares held in treasury. Nothing dramatic, but it looks like they will accumulate around 8-10% of the shares by the AGM, improving earnings per share, and perhaps making it harder for remaining shareholders to unseat board members (no idea whether that's the strategy, but it is an effect).



Usual caveats, if you want share advice, or value your life savings, go to a stock broker, not an IT tech.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

<SNIP>

Usual caveats, if you want share advice, or value your life savings, go to a stock broker, not an IT tech.

Looking at BT's present performance an IT tech mihgt bw able to improve the share prices since the managment BT has now seem unable to think outside the box.

[Privacy_Matters]

Ok Guys

Just got a response from Steve Gibson:

Hi ******,

You are welcome to use the image at the TWiT page, and, yes, any anti-Phorm campaigns are also welcome to use the pic and links, etc. We're all on the same side in this issue.

Thanks for your note, for your interest ... and all the best,

The image to link is at the URL below:

<<http://twit.tv/sites/all/themes/twit/img/podcasts/podcast_2.jpg>>

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

and create the link back to:

http://twit.tv/sn151

This will be more professional looking. And as Steve Gibson says above, all Anti Phorm Campaigns are welcome to use

[phormwatch]

Speaking of security gurus - you may have heard of Bruce Schneier. He's a bit of a heavyweight in the IT security world. He releases and monthly newsletter on security.

His website can be found here:

http://www.schneier.com/

I was surprised to find out that he is 'Chief Security Technology Officer' of BT. I wrote him an email, before I knew this fact and asked why he hadn't written any articles about Phorm. He replied that the technology was 'not particularly interesting'.

Technically, this may be true. However, he also writes about all sorts of stuff relating to the intersection of technology and privacy and social issues - which is why I was all the more surprised at the time.

In light of the new information, I wouldn't be surprised if his reticence has anything to do with his position. Though this is mere speculation on my part.

[Digbert]

Privacy International in the news again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7488524.stm

Google's plans to launch a mapping tool in the UK could be referred to the Information Commissioner.

Street View matches photos of locations to maps, including passers-by who were captured as the photograph was taken.

"In our view they need a person's consent if they make use of a person's face for commercial ends," said Simon Davis of the group.
If the group does not get the answer it seeks within seven days, Mr Davies said it would write to the Information Commissioner seeking a suspension of the service in the UK.



It's a pity that Privacy International are not as outspoken about companies that want to make use of our data for commercial ends.

[phormwatch]

Other people to possibly invite to speak at the demo:

Tim Burners-Lee

Tony Benn

Shami Chakrabarti

?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Digbert

Privacy International in the news again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7488524.stm

Google's plans to launch a mapping tool in the UK could be referred to the Information Commissioner.

Street View matches photos of locations to maps, including passers-by who were captured as the photograph was taken.

"In our view they need a person's consent if they make use of a person's face for commercial ends," said Simon Davis of the group.
If the group does not get the answer it seeks within seven days, Mr Davies said it would write to the Information Commissioner seeking a suspension of the service in the UK.



It's a pity that Privacy International are not so outspoken about companies that want to make use of our data for commercial ends.

Very true they left the British public high and dry in the phorm stink..