Deportation of illegal migrants

[GrimUpNorth]

If nothing else HM Gov has succeeded in getting us to discuss something other than our lying slime ball PM, so there will those in Downing Street marking today as a success. The rest of us however will see this as another public example of how crap we can be and the whole world will be cringing with embarrassment (whatever side of the debate you're on).

[ianch99]

The funniest part of all of this is that Rwanda will send their refugees to the UK as part of the reciprocal arrangements. I can also hear the Daily Mail keyboards

[nomadking]

Link

On that subject, the Court noted that, in general, exclusion orders were not characterised as criminal within the member States of the Council of Europe. Such orders, which in most States could also be made by the administrative authorities, constituted a special preventive measure for the purposes of immigration control and did not concern the determination of a criminal charge for the purposes of Article 6 § 1. The fact that they were imposed in the context of criminal proceedings could not alter their essentially preventive nature. It followed that proceedings for rescission of such measures could not be regarded as being in the criminal sphere either. The Court therefore concluded that decisions regarding the entry, stay and deportation of aliens did not concern the determination of civil rights or obligations or of a criminal charge, within the meaning of Article 6 § 1.
Conclusion: Article 6 inapplicable (fifteen votes to two).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

If nothing else HM Gov has succeeded in getting us to discuss something other than our lying slime ball PM, so there will those in Downing Street marking today as a success. The rest of us however will see this as another public example of how crap we can be and the whole world will be cringing with embarrassment (whatever side of the debate you're on).

The UK was starting to look like a sensible country again with its robust support for Ukraine. Then the government seeks to amend an international deal unilaterally and then its first deportation to Rwanda is deemed unlawful by the courts.

What a farce! Carry on Johnson, as no one says.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I'm not screaming, don't exaggerate. My point stands: you will not see Ukrainians on these flights, they are processing the people from the Middle East.

As for destroying of documents, again, I ask where is the evidence? Phones are not passports ..

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------



You can lose your temper if you wish, it doesn't change the facts. I ask again where is the evidence the majority of asylum seekers are destroying their documents? Phones are not legal identity documents, I am surprised to have to point this out.

Migration watch claimed it was 98% not so long ago, is it true, I dont know but how do you deport a failed applicant if you font know where they're from

Originally Posted by ianch99

The funniest part of all of this is that Rwanda will send their refugees to the UK as part of the reciprocal arrangements. I can also hear the Daily Mail keyboards

That's funny? We are sending people to a place where anyone who disagrees with the regime potentially has to move here to be safe and you find that amusing

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I'm not screaming, don't exaggerate. My point stands: you will not see Ukrainians on these flights, they are processing the people from the Middle East.

As for destroying of documents, again, I ask where is the evidence? Phones are not passports ..

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------



You can lose your temper if you wish, it doesn't change the facts. I ask again where is the evidence the majority of asylum seekers are destroying their documents? Phones are not legal identity documents, I am surprised to have to point this out.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Where are their identity documents then?

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/new...tity-documents

Deliberate destruction of documentation by tens of thousands crossing the Channel in boats without prior permission must be treated as prima facie evidence of asylum abuse where such persons seek protection (as 98% do). Such actions are already a criminal offence.

Yet we increasingly take tens of thousands of people in who we cannot identify – immediately injecting them into the heart of British society.

This is naive, negligent madness.

As the Crown Prosecution Service has said: “The destruction of documents disables the authorities from establishing where an entrant came from, in order to increase the chances of success of a claim or application and/or to thwart removal… These offences have the real potential to undermine the whole system of immigration control.”

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Where are their identity documents then?

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/new...tity-documents

I don't think that anyone disputes that destroying identity documents sounds dodgy. We all get that. But the above is not evidence that it is happening. And as Ian pointed out, a mobile phone is not an identity document.

From the Farage video, it seems that one person on the boat gets their trip across the channel free if they recruit enough people to join them. It makes sense that this person would have the contact details of the people smugglers and would not want to share these details with the authorities for fear of reprisals from the people smugglers hence throwing their phone overboard.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The UK was starting to look like a sensible country again with its robust support for Ukraine. Then the government seeks to amend an international deal unilaterally and then its first deportation to Rwanda is deemed unlawful by the courts.

What a farce! Carry on Johnson, as no one says.

Carrie on Johnson, you surely meant!

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think that anyone disputes that destroying identity documents sounds dodgy. We all get that. But the above is not evidence that it is happening. And as Ian pointed out, a mobile phone is not an identity document.

From the Farage video, it seems that one person on the boat gets their trip across the channel free if they recruit enough people to join them. It makes sense that this person would have the contact details of the people smugglers and would not want to share these details with the authorities for fear of reprisals from the people smugglers hence throwing their phone overboard.

Not only that, it's actually a criminal offence

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/new...tity-documents

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think that anyone disputes that destroying identity documents sounds dodgy. We all get that. But the above is not evidence that it is happening. And as Ian pointed out, a mobile phone is not an identity document.

From the Farage video, it seems that one person on the boat gets their trip across the channel free if they recruit enough people to join them. It makes sense that this person would have the contact details of the people smugglers and would not want to share these details with the authorities for fear of reprisals from the people smugglers hence throwing their phone overboard.

Andrew, Ian isn't being objective.

You're well capable of objectivity. Justifying the chucking away of mobile phones is bizarre. These people arrive in the UK without documentation they must have had in order to traverse Europe. This makes them cheats. Aren't we in the realms of, here?

[Mr K]

A £300k bill for a plane that went nowhere.... I suspect they knew it would never go and just wanted to change the headlines. In which case the public's money well spent.

Originally Posted by Mr K

A £300k bill for a plane that went nowhere.... I suspect they knew it would never go and just wanted to change the headlines. In which case the public's money well spent.

I doubt it will work.It's too juicy a story for the media to abandon completely and it will soon be back in the headlines about Boris being completely useless as PM.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Andrew, Ian isn't being objective.

You're well capable of objectivity. Justifying the chucking away of mobile phones is bizarre. These people arrive in the UK without documentation they must have had in order to traverse Europe. This makes them cheats. Aren't we in the realms of, here?

Would they have needed documents to travel across Europe? The Shengen area is quite big!

What countries are in Schengen region?
Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sc...hengen-visa_en

[GrimUpNorth]

Yesterday was the busiest small boat day since mid April so the threat of flying people to Rwanda is a successful deterrent

[papa smurf]

time for plan B