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Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared
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Old 14-01-2022, 20:50   #16
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Erm, that statement is not congruent with actuality, for a number of reasons.

A) In the two cases being discussed, the CPS decided to prosecute - by your "logic", they would not have done that.

B) One of our best friends (known them nearly 40 years, god-parents to each others’ children, go on holiday with them once or twice a year (three times this year, making up for last year )), is a Regional Crown Prosecutor for the CPS - she points out that they decide to prosecute based on two stages

She also pointed out that since they don’t know who would be in the Jury for any given case, how could they judge if that jury would convict?
The question is what would the CPS do with another similar case? The precedent set by the juries now there.
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Old 14-01-2022, 20:53   #17
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

Make better choices with the 4 folk they kick off in jury selection.
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Old 14-01-2022, 21:56   #18
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

I'm lucky in that I've never been called for Jury Service, never wanted it and would probably end up in prison myself if they pushed the issue

Apparently some people love it though
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Old 14-01-2022, 21:57   #19
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Juries are meant to decide things on the basis of LAW, not what they pick and choose. Would you like your fate to be based upon what a jury liked or disliked?
They did decide the statue case based on law, I forget the legal term but criminal damage isn't a cut and dried crime, the jury had room to manoeuvre, an example would be smashing a car window on a hot day because you think a baby or dog is in danger
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Old 14-01-2022, 22:02   #20
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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They did decide the statue case based on law, I forget the legal term but criminal damage isn't a cut and dried crime, the jury had room to manoeuvre, an example would be smashing a car window on a hot day because you think a baby or dog is in danger


So who was in danger when those idiots pulled the statue down?
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Old 14-01-2022, 22:08   #21
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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They did decide the statue case based on law, I forget the legal term but criminal damage isn't a cut and dried crime, the jury had room to manoeuvre, an example would be smashing a car window on a hot day because you think a baby or dog is in danger
Nonsense, so you're saying that somebody could smash a car window the minute they left the vehicle, however briefly?
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Old 14-01-2022, 22:09   #22
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Nonsense, so you're saying that somebody could smash a car window the minute they left the vehicle, however briefly?
Exactly.
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Old 14-01-2022, 22:17   #23
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Exactly.
What imminent danger was there in leaving the car for a few minutes?
Are we all now allowed to come up with what is a danger, and damage buildings connected to slavery? Or is it only certain ones?

Last edited by nomadking; 14-01-2022 at 22:27.
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Old 14-01-2022, 22:36   #24
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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The question is what would the CPS do with another similar case? The precedent set by the juries now there.
No, it’s not - juries don’t set precedents.

You are assuming that all the juries in every different part of the country would act the same way - this is not likely.

You may find this barrister’s review of the verdict informative (or may not) - my friend (the Regional CPS) said it was a reasoned, and reasonable, document; they has over 35 years criminal law experience, so, if you don’t mind, I’ll take their informed view over yours…

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/...u-should-know/

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Does this create a precedent? Does it mean that anybody can now pull down a statue of somebody they don’t like without consequence?

No. And no. Jury verdicts create no precedent in law. If a case with exactly the same facts were tried tomorrow by a different jury, that jury would be entitled to convict. If you pull down a statue, and the Crown Prosecution Service conclude that there is evidence to support a charge of criminal damage and that it is in the public interest to prosecute you, you will be prosecuted for criminal damage. You will then be at liberty to plead not guilty and to be tried by a jury of your peers, during which you would be tried according to the same standards and under the same law as the Colston 4. Whether you would be convicted, and, if so, what your sentence would be, would entirely depend on the facts and circumstances proved by the evidence. There is never a guaranteed outcome with a jury trial.
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Old 14-01-2022, 23:19   #25
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Nonsense, so you're saying that somebody could smash a car window the minute they left the vehicle, however briefly?
Are you a QC? That's the example one used the other day to explain how the jury lawfully came to their decision but as ever you know best

---------- Post added at 22:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

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[/B]
So who was in danger when those idiots pulled the statue down?
That's not what was said, what was said is the jury had wriggle room as opposed to drink driving where you either are or you aren't
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Old 15-01-2022, 10:20   #26
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Rubbish.

All the best civil disobedience involves some destruction.
Got to agree with JFman, if you don’t make enough of a scene to get what you’re protesting over noticed then what is the point.

That has to balanced with, if you’re stopping somebody from earning their wage be prepared to get a slap and dragged out the way.

I would add, and if unlawful be prepared to be arrested but as we saw with ‘insulate the middle class’. The police are more like to offer you a cup of tea rather than handcuffs.
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Old 15-01-2022, 13:30   #27
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

Would the 'verdict' have been different if they were young and black, or maybe even white tattooed skin heads instead of some doddery old folk with no library to got to?

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Old 15-01-2022, 13:55   #28
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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Would the 'verdict' have been different if they were young and black, or maybe even white tattooed skin heads instead of some doddery old folk with no library to got to?

And what if the jury had been young and black, or maybe even white tattooed skin heads - would the verdict* have been different?

How do you know the jury wasn’t made up of those people?

*verdict, not ‘verdict’…
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Old 15-01-2022, 15:50   #29
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Re: Extinction Rebellion Protesters Cleared

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And what if the jury had been young and black, or maybe even white tattooed skin heads - would the verdict* have been different?

How do you know the jury wasn’t made up of those people?

*verdict, not ‘verdict’…
Oh yes, I agree with what you say, it all comes down to the 'opinion' of the jury.

Although I'm of the opinion that the same jury would have been less lenient against 'younger' offenders . . . opinions eh
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