President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

Tell that to the parents.

More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.

[1andrew1]

Some more Trump revelations, described by a former high-ranking British diplomat as “It’s bloody outrageous to do this. The whole point of negotiations is to not play dirty tricks like this.”
Trump can of course deny any knowledge but that's what he said about the $130k reimbursement to pay Stormy Daniels.

Aides to Donald Trump, the US president, hired an Israeli private intelligence agency to orchestrate a “dirty ops” campaign against key individuals from the Obama administration who helped negotiate the Iran nuclear deal, the Observer can reveal.
People in the Trump camp contacted private investigators in May last year to “get dirt” on Ben Rhodes, who had been one of Barack Obama’s top national security advisers, and Colin Kahl, deputy assistant to Obama, as part of an elaborate attempt to discredit the deal.
The extraordinary revelations come days before Trump’s 12 May deadline to either scrap or continue to abide by the international deal limiting Iran’s nuclear programme.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-nuclear-deal

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Mick

More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.

Again not factually accurate. At last estimate there was about 260 million guns with a population of about 325 million people.

There are so many things they could do to slow down sales of guns and also reduce legal types to just low powered hand guns and make rifles and machine guns illegal or only purchase under certain circumstances.

The fact he met with those kids and families hand no intention of actually listening doing anything about the issue and was at his 6th NRA meeting in the last 2 years shows who his loyalties lie with.

Stephen automatic weapons are already restricted they are whats known as an NFA item it is very difficult to obtain them even in states that allow them and the cost is astronomical. As for banning rifles do you mean certain one's or all rifles which would be a politically suicidal thing to do given the number of americans who hunt to provide food for their families. Rather then put a long list of links Andrew just google "cdc defensive gun use study" as well as the number of times firearms are used in a defensive situation the study showed that armed citizens were less likely to be injured by criminal acts.

It's all well and good having a go at Trump on gun control but no president in the last thirty years has really done a single thing that wasn't short lived and they have all seen mass shootings so why the sudden expectation that Trump who was known to be pro gun before he was elected should suddenly do more then his predecessors. Firearms in the U.S is not a simple black and white issue despite how some make it out to be they are a part of the national identity firearms in the hands of citizens has existed since the birth of the U.S as a nation.

Cars, medical mistakes, industrial accidents, alcohol and tobacco all kill far more then firearms though nobody bothers too much on reigning in those areas only firearms and like it or not the 2nd amendment protects firearms in the hands of citizens and strengthens the other amendments so unless a politician is prepared to risk massive social unrest americans will stay armed for a long time to come.

Mr Gobshite has cheesed the French off as well.

US President Donald Trump has outraged French opinion by suggesting the 2015 attacks on Paris could have been stopped by giving people guns.
He mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired.
In reality, the attackers sprayed many of their 130 victims with semi-automatic fire and set off bomb belts.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3832181.html

[nomadking]

The Bataclan hall attack was brought to an end by armed police officers. If somebody in the hall had had a gun and used it, the attack would have been stopped earlier. On the other hand, how likely would it be for somebody to take a gun to a concert? As for the suicide vests, that shows that banning guns isn't a solution.

A mass gun attack only works if carried out from far enough away to avoid return fire or where it is very unlikely that anybody else is armed. Nothing much can be done about the first, only about the second.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Again not factually accurate. At last estimate there was about 260 million guns with a population of about 325 million people.

There are so many things they could do to slow down sales of guns and also reduce legal types to just low powered hand guns and make rifles and machine guns illegal or only purchase under certain circumstances.

The fact he met with those kids and families hand no intention of actually listening doing anything about the issue and was at his 6th NRA meeting in the last 2 years shows who his loyalties lie with.

Machine Guns are illegal or any fully automatic weapon.

You can limit gun sales, but what about the millions guns already in circulation?

And actually there is more guns in Anerica than people, that is factually accurate, so don’t tell me that it isn’t.

His loyalties lie with the 2nd Amendment & People who lawfully use a gun.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

Mr Gobshite has cheesed the French off as well.

US President Donald Trump has outraged French opinion by suggesting the 2015 attacks on Paris could have been stopped by giving people guns.
He mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired.
In reality, the attackers sprayed many of their 130 victims with semi-automatic fire and set off bomb belts.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3832181.html

Do not use inappropriate and rude names (For Politicians, Celebrities, Famous Brands). This is a forum for grownup discussion.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Machine Guns are illegal or any fully automatic weapon.

You can limit gun sales, but what about the millions guns already in circulation?

And actually there is more guns in Anerica than people, that is factually accurate, so don’t tell me that it isn’t.

His loyalties lie with the 2nd Amendment & People who lawfully use a gun.

Trump's loyalties lie with whoever is funding him. He wasn't particularly pro-arms before the NRA and its cheque book beckoned.

In terms of guns, Wikipedia says the US population is 328m people and Researchgate says Americans own between 262m-310m firearms. It's not easy to prove the precise number so I can understand you and Stephen disagreeing on this number; newspaper articles do as I show below.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._United_States

Two articles on the subject:
1) The US is home to 88 guns for every 100 people (October 2017)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nce-statistics
2) There are now more guns than people in the United States (October 2015)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.582d78d9e408

On another note - the barbecue beckons - enjoy the sunny bank holiday everyone!

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I'd tell the parents to ask the school why they didn't have Cruz charged when he attended the school with weapons and ammunition rather then take the quick and easy route of just expelling him. Then I'd tell them to go and ask the local police department why they failed to act on over 30 reports of Cruz's behaviour including threatening other people with and without weapons one report also highlighted that Cruz had a firearm in the yard. Then as Mick said I'd send them to the F.B.I who also ignored numerous reports and when pulled up on it they shout lack of resources.

That school shooting was a massive failure of the system and people are now calling for the system to be more involved with firearms, well why not they have such a great track record. Just as happened in the UK the attention has been taken away from all the system failures and focused just on firearms by those who couldn't care less about the victims just their anti gun agenda. While mass shootings of course are terrible and should call for a review of the system it has to be measured against the good firearms do in the U.S with each year a minimum of 700,000 defensive uses that save lives and that's the figure obama got after spending ten million dollars to try and prove firearms were only a negative aspect of the U.S.

Interesting article in Times magazine about this FBI failure and others. Also the public's changing confidence in the FBI.

http://time.com/5264153/the-fbi-is-i...ing-the-price/

It’s not hard to do the maths Andrew. 310 Million guns in owners possession going off your principle, what about all the other millions of guns in shops and the black market. Plus gun enthusiasts potentially own well over 50 guns. I saw a stat of for every one person in America, there is 12 guns.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It’s not hard to do the maths Andrew. 310 Million guns in owners possession going off your principle, what about all the other millions of guns in shops and the black market. Plus gun enthusiasts potentially own well over 50 guns. I saw a stat of for every one person in America, there is 12 guns.

It is hard if you correctly read the data which is between 268m and 310m not 310m. Hence you and Stephen are potentially both right. Happy days. Now, time for us all to put those beers in the fridge and soak up those rays!

Sorry, no can do with the beer. Some of us have to work this afternoon.

From Trump’s speech to the NRA

"Thanks to your activism and dedication, you have an administration fighting to protect your Second Amendment and we will protect your Second Amendment," he said. "Your Second Amendment rights are under siege, but they will never ever be under siege as long as I am your president."

So are they, or are they not, under siege?

(because he says they are and they aren’t)

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.

But they did ask for more Gun Control, and it’s one of the NRA’s tactics to conflate any form of gun control with gun bans, when they are two completely separate things.

The irony of talking about more gun control is it actually gets people out buying more firearms worried that they may be banned and if nobody had talked about gun control there would probably be far less firearms then there are in the U.S. Same thing with ammunition sale's of the three most popular calibre's .223\5.56x45, .308\7.62x51 and 9mm increase massively anytime gun control is talked about with many bulk supplier's having to increase order's to keep up with sale's. Firearms are not going anywhere anytime soon in the U.S as ownership of firearms has dramatically increased in the last three decades and the range of firearms has also ballooned.

Of course Trump is going to play to the firearms community they voted for him in huge numbers probably swinging a couple of states he owes them and he knows it as does the community who will not react well if they feel he is going against their rights and interests. Whenever firearms are discussed by people outside of the U.S they talk about the NRA as this great champion of the citizen and their right to own firearms but the truth is apart from when Charlton Heston was running things the NRA has a lousy record of advocating for firearms. They are usually the first to offer compromises on firearms and accessories as they did with this latest incident offering a ban on bumpfire stocks before anyone else had even mentioned it. They are viewed by the firearms community as that good at defending gun rights that active membership is down with people moving to another organisation that's growing rapidly because of their "not one inch" attitude and the GOA (Gun Owner's of America) is likely to surpass the NRA as the main citizens representatives within fifteen years.

The problem in the U.S isn't the firearms as much as the lousy performance of the agency's that are supposed to oversee the system such as the ATF, FBI and local law enforcement. The other aspect that contributes heavily to mass shootings is an abysmal mental health system that scares the hell out of people who then when they have issue's don't seek help. Right now the biggest thing helping the anti gun campaigners is the firearms community themself they are so busy fighting with each other over ridiculous issue's that they have failed completely to oppose the current anti gun culture which is breathtaking in its ignorance and stupidity regarding firearms and could be easily silenced.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Trump's loyalties lie with whoever is funding him. He wasn't particularly pro-arms before the NRA and its cheque book beckoned.

Funnily enough his loyalty wasn't always republican either, he always said he'd stand more chance as or with the democrats