Brexit (Old)

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

He didn’t advocate staying the EU. He simply states the the deal offered by May, is even “worse” than staying in the EU - which is bad enough.

They are the only 2 realistic choices available now though. He's admitted Remain is better than TM's masterplan. (which he, hilariously, negotiated anyway!)

[Carth]

I can think of a 3rd option that quite a few of us may applaud

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They are the only 2 realistic choices available now though. He's admitted Remain is better than TM's masterplan. (which he, hilariously, negotiated anyway!)

No, your forgetting either renegotiate May’s deal or No Deal.

If parliament vote down May’s deal then No Deal is a real option. Faced with that the EU may consider tweaking May’s deal.

[jfman]

In amongst all the excitement of the last few days I missed the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Liz Truss, using the line "we are in serious danger of not leaving at all".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06sffw4

These aren't accidents. This is co-ordinated.

Of the 25 members of the Cabinet (plus 4 who attend Cabinet) only eight campaigned to leave in 2016. And one of those is Gove ffs, if he could be the hero post-remain to unite the party and become PM he'd support remain in a heartbeat.

Prime Minister Theresa May MP REMAIN
Chairman of the Conservative Party Brandon Lewis MP REMAIN
Leader of the House of Lords Baroness Evans of Bowes Park PC LEAVE
Leader of the House of Commons Andrea Leadsom MP LEAVE
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox QC MP LEAVE
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster David Lidington CBE MP REMAIN
Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for the Home Department Sajid Javid MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Jeremy Hunt MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union Stephen Barclay MP LEAVE
Secretary of State for Defence Gavin Williamson CBE MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Justice David Gauke MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Matthew Hancock MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Education Damian Hinds MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for International Trade Liam Fox MP LEAVE
Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Greg Clark MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Michael Gove MP LEAVE
Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling MP LEAVE
Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government James Brokenshire MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for International Development Penny Mordaunt MP LEAVE
Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Jeremy Wright QC MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Amber Rudd MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Wales Alun Cairns MP REMAIN
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Karen Bradley MP REMAIN
Also attending cabinet meetings
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Elizabeth Truss MP REMAIN
Chief Whip Julian Smith MP REMAIN
Minister of State for Immigration Caroline Nokes MP REMAIN
Minister of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Claire Perry MP REMAIN

What do you think the consensus is among them in a choice between leaving with no deal or remain when they sit round a table?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

No, your forgetting either renegotiate May’s deal or No Deal.

If parliament vote down May’s deal then No Deal is a real option. Faced with that the EU may consider tweaking May’s deal.

Theresa says renegotiation isn't possible. The EU have given as good as we'll get which is a lot worse than the status quo. No deal isn't and never has been a realistic option, parliament wouldn't allow it and we've made no proper preparations.

Welcome to Planet Reality, the Brexit fairy tale is over.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Theresa says renegotiation isn't possible.

Nothing is impossible, we haven’t tried yet.

The EU have given as good as we'll get which is a lot worse than the status quo.

The EU have not been backed into a corner yet during these last two years, they have not been put under any pressure by our weak negotiating. I want to see what happens when they squeak.

No deal isn't and never has been a realistic option, parliament wouldn't allow it and we've made no proper preparations.

Well unless parliament pull their finger out, if nothing is sorted by March next year that’s what will happen.

Welcome to Planet Reality, the Brexit fairy tale is over.

There is no fairy tale, but Brexit will happen, I just don’t know what it will look like.

[jfman]

You seem to be under the false impression we have the skill, ability or economic strength to back them into a corner. Do you think if we had that capability we'd have achieved that at some point in the last two years?

If you think that £39bn, our financial commitment for years to come, is going to make or break the EU (annual budget €145bn in 2015) you are simply ignoring the reality. The financial institutions can cover that with lending and spread it across a long enough period for minimal reductions in the EU budget.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

I can think of a 3rd option that quite a few of us may applaud

For the avoidance of doubt, only 14% of the electorate want no deal.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Nothing is impossible, we haven’t tried yet..

What the heck have we been doing for 2 years then!

Originally Posted by Pierre

The EU have not been backed into a corner yet during these last two years, they have not been put under any pressure by our weak negotiating. I want to see what happens when they squeak.

We're the ones that are squeaking, desperate and on our own. The other 27 countries have each other.

Originally Posted by Pierre

There is no fairy tale, but Brexit will happen, I just don’t know what it will look like.

So you voted for something, but you don't know what it is or what it will entail or result in ?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

No deal isn't and never has been a realistic option, parliament wouldn't allow it . . .

But if every deal we put to the EU is rejected, by those or ours, what would happen in March?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

For the avoidance of doubt, only 14% of the electorate want no deal.

. . . and which (independent) poll of 1250 people was that one Andrew?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

You seem to be under the false impression we have the skill, ability or economic strength to back them into a corner. Do you think if we had that capability we'd have achieved that at some point in the last two years?

If we’d had anyone with any backbone we may have.

Cameron went there fawning and tipping his cap and got sod all. May, for all her steadfastness, has always been from a position of weakness because although her mantra of “no deal is better than a bad deal” she never believed it, they never believed or for one minute felt threatened by it because they knew she wouldn’t do it. They haven’t been tested by anyone that would look them in the eyes an press the button. Or that they would believe would press the button.

If you think that £39bn, our financial commitment for years to come, is going to make or break the EU (annual budget €145bn in 2015) you are simply ignoring the reality.

.
Well there you go.....again.....arguing with yourself and using others as proxy. I didn’t say or imply that. You have done this countless times. Made a point, argued against the point and tried to pass it off as somebody else’s point. Please stop it.

The financial institutions can cover that with lending and spread it across a long enough period for minimal reductions in the EU budget.

whatever you’re talking to yourself again.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Carth

But if every deal we put to the EU is rejected, by those or ours, what would happen in March

Probably we/the EU agree to extend/delay. Legislation can be changed. Ways and means if both parties want, which they would.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

What the heck have we been doing for 2 years then!

Been negotiating from the angle that we don’t really want to leave the EU, so how can we fudge it so it looks like we leave but don’t.

There has been no hard negotiating. The have never felt threatened that we would walk.

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

So you voted for something, but you don't know what it is or what it will entail or result in ?

I’ve stated many times that I voted remain. I lost.

However, i’m All in or. All out.

Or negotiation has been weak, we should walk and show some backbone.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There has been no hard negotiating. The have never felt threatened that we would walk.

We're not going to 'walk' as it would damage us a lot more than them (and both parties know it hence our weak negotiating position).

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Been negotiating from the angle that we don’t really want to leave the EU, so how can we fudge it so it looks like we leave but don’t.

There has been no hard negotiating. The have never felt threatened that we would walk.

and they're so subtle about it, they don't think anyone has noticed