Britain outside the EU

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Right, so we can agree that this applies to all non EU countries, we’re not being ‘picked on’ by the ‘perfidious EU’ or other such nonsense. This is just one of the consequences that has to be dealt with. Fab

who's this "we"

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

who's this "we"

Sorry, are you saying the rules are different for separate non eu countries ?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Sorry, are you saying the rules are different for separate non eu countries ?

I'm asking who agreed with you

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I'm asking who agreed with you

I believe Chris did

Are you disagreeing ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Right, so we can agree that this applies to all non EU countries, we’re not being ‘picked on’ by the ‘perfidious EU’ or other such nonsense. This is just one of the consequences that has to be dealt with. Fab

You don’t half spout a load of tosh. You have completely ignored the unique circumstances of the NI/GB situation which does not apply to any other third country.

Btw, which other non-EU countries export sandwiches to the EU?

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I believe Chris did

Are you disagreeing ?

I did; we call it the ‘Single Market’ but actually in world terms it ought to be known as the ‘protectionist market’. The rules that enforce so-called harmonisation of standards across member states also function to make it difficult for non members to sell into it. The difficulties that will arise in the movement of goods between GB and NI will be much the same as those between any other pair of territories where one is inside the single market and the other is not.

This, of course, is the reason Boris believes in the long term those arrangements can’t and won’t stand, because they create two very different regulatory systems within one nation state.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You don’t half spout a load of tosh. You have completely ignored the unique circumstances of the NI/GB situation which does not apply to any other third country.

Btw, which other non-EU countries export sandwiches to the EU?

Well, I’m not as you can per chris’s reply, he agrees.

Perhaps other countries don’t export sandwiches to the EU because of the requirements? Or are you yet again advocating again that we should receive different treatment to other non eu countries because <insert random nonsense reason here>

We’re no different to any other non EU country & I find it perplexing that now Brexit has been ‘done’ with numerous brexiteers telling remainers to accept the situation some brexiteers are now throwing their rattles out the pram.

You wanted Brexit, you got Brexit, stop the whinging and the childish bleating.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Well, I’m not as you can per chris’s reply, he agrees.

Perhaps other countries don’t export sandwiches to the EU because of the requirements? Or are you yet again advocating again that we should receive different treatment to other non eu countries because <insert random nonsense reason here>

We’re no different to any other non EU country & I find it perplexing that now Brexit has been ‘done’ with numerous brexiteers telling remainers to accept the situation some brexiteers are now throwing their rattles out the pram.

You wanted Brexit, you got Brexit, stop the whinging and the childish bleating.

What I find perplexing is why you always side with the EU, despite their actions clearly being against the UK's interests.

[Sephiroth]

@MrM

Your head must be stuck somewhere other than in the sand.

You say the UK is no different from any other non-EU country. What drivel that is. You still doggedly ignore the unique NI/GB situation.

You should be rooting for the EU to interpret their rules in a pragmatic way that does not bring unrest to NI, which is about to happen.

I know what you’re going to say next.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Well, I’m not as you can per chris’s reply, he agrees.

Perhaps other countries don’t export sandwiches to the EU because of the requirements? Or are you yet again advocating again that we should receive different treatment to other non eu countries because <insert random nonsense reason here>

We’re no different to any other non EU country & I find it perplexing that now Brexit has been ‘done’ with numerous brexiteers telling remainers to accept the situation some brexiteers are now throwing their rattles out the pram.

You wanted Brexit, you got Brexit, stop the whinging and the childish bleating.

I agree that the EU is treating the single market border between GB and NI the same as it would any other. It’s plainly daft however to claim there’s no basis for expecting different arrangements to apply to GB-NI. This is an internal issue for a sovereign independent state. The present solution ignores the sanctity of national sovereignty (which is of only incidental importance to the European Commission) in favour of the sanctity of the single market (which is of overriding importance to the European Commission).

Like it or not, the government strategy has clearly been designed to accept that situation only as long as required to actually get a deal signed, then undermine it on the calculation that nobody in the EU will really want to bring the whole treaty down over Northern Ireland.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What I find perplexing is why you always side with the EU, despite their actions clearly being against the UK's interests.

This was an entirely foreseeable consequence which iirc was discussed to the deaths, around the time of the referendum. It was summarily dismissed by many a Brexiteer as ‘project fear’

Don’t bring the jingoistic nationalism, it doesn’t wash.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

I agree that the EU is treating the single market border between GB and NI the same as it would any other. It’s plainly daft however to claim there’s no basis for expecting different arrangements to apply to GB-NI. This is an internal issue for a sovereign independent state. The present solution ignores the sanctity of national sovereignty (which is of only incidental importance to the European Commission) in favour of the sanctity of the single market (which is of overriding importance to the European Commission).

Like it or not, the government strategy has clearly been designed to accept that situation only as long as required to actually get a deal signed, then undermine it on the calculation that nobody in the EU will really want to bring the whole treaty down over Northern Ireland.

Which leads us back inevitably to the point that the U.K. agreed to this… it we were to break the treaties etc then it will cause many a country to raise an eyebrow

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@MrM

Your head must be stuck somewhere other than in the sand.

You say the UK is no different from any other non-EU country. What drivel that is. You still doggedly ignore the unique NI/GB situation.

You should be rooting for the EU to interpret their rules in a pragmatic way that does not bring unrest to NI, which is about to happen.

I know what you’re going to say next.

I’m advocating that the U.K. government upholds and implements the legally binding treaties it agreed too.

We’re Great Britain, remember ? We don’t need the EU’s help, remember ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

This was an entirely foreseeable consequence which iirc was discussed to the deaths, around the time of the referendum. It was summarily dismissed by many a Brexiteer as ‘project fear’

Don’t bring the jingoistic nationalism, it doesn’t wash.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------




Which leads us back inevitably to the point that the U.K. agreed to this… it we were to break the treaties etc then it will cause many a country to raise an eyebrow

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------



I’m advocating that the U.K. government upholds and implements the legally binding treaties it agreed too.

We’re Great Britain, remember ? We don’t need the EU’s help, remember ?

You are missing the point. We agreed to the words. I am questioning the interpretation. And you continue to side with those who are intent on damaging us.

What is this? Hatred of this country or self-flagellation?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are missing the point. We agreed to the words. I am questioning the interpretation. And you continue to side with those who are intent on damaging us.

What is this? Hatred of this country or self-flagellation?

You can question whatever you want…. The point is we negotiated and agreed to a deal, we didn’t have to, did we ?

so, because I disagree with what the government is doing I hate the country?? What’s next ? Going to accuse me of being a terrorist perhaps ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You can question whatever you want…. The point is we negotiated and agreed to a deal, we didn’t have to, did we ?

so, because I disagree with what the government is doing I hate the country?? What’s next ? Going to accuse me of being a terrorist perhaps ?

You didn’t address the fact that I was not questioning the agreement. I was questioning the interpretation of that agreement. To wit, the sandwich example above.

It’s actually the consistency of your arguments that is the key here. You are certainly batting for the other side, and you are not the only one.

I didn’t call you a terrorist. However, if we are ever invaded by a foreign power, don’t expect me to support your application to join the resistance. You are too conflicted for my liking.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Which leads us back inevitably to the point that the U.K. agreed to this… it we were to break the treaties etc then it will cause many a country to raise an eyebrow

True, but again I think there has clearly been a calculation made here, namely that these will be acknowledged internationally as exceptional circumstances and not likely to affect our approach in general to international treaties.