The energy crisis

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The reduction in gas storage occurred recently - in 2017.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...h-gas-centrica

I think some responsibility must be attributed to Ofgem as well as the government and market forces.

Then how come EU countries are also badly affected?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Then how come EU countries are also badly affected?

Because demand has gone up worldwide?

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Dunno why you are paying that much though as they are over the old price cap figures I posted earlier in this thread
These are the October Price Cap Figures so for some reason you are paying more than them. Your Gas figure has to be wrong

From Spring 2021 I was paying Orbit Electricity 11.399 per kWh, Gas 2.431 per kWh


Then in October 2021 there was a big jump Electricity 24.761 per kwh, Gas 6.018 per kwh.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Taf

From Spring 2021 I was paying Orbit Electricity 11.399 per kWh, Gas 2.431 per kWh


Then in October 2021 there was a big jump Electricity 24.761 per kwh, Gas 6.018 per kwh.

you typoed your gas and put 26p. I was paying similar with Avro

The electric is higher than the cap though

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Because demand has gone up worldwide?

this is why the prices are high. High demand. India and Germany are among the countries that have switched to gas and I believe China has to meaning supplies have dwindled.

Of course those farming the gas (I dunno what you would call a group of wells or fraking set ups) do not have to increase the prices they just are because of supply and demand meaning the rest of us have to pay the extra while the oligarchs are laughing all the way to the bank

Just for one minute think what will happen Russia does invade the Ukraine and the UK and EU start sanctioning them and they decide to either cut off the gas line or increase the price even more. Shell won't mind but the rest of us will

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Lets be honest about this though, they are not obliged to do anything. These price rises are not this Governments fault. Increased demand has led to increased wholesale prices. If you want to blame a government you will need to go back 30 plus years and blame those who decided not to increase gas storage and not invest in more nuclear power stations

Let's be really honest they wouldn't do anything if they didn't think votes would be lost if they did nothing and it's clearly not their fault, 12 years in power isn't enough time to sort anything out

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

you typoed your gas and put 26p. I was paying similar with Avro

The electric is higher than the cap though

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------



this is why the prices are high. High demand. India and Germany are among the countries that have switched to gas and I believe China has to meaning supplies have dwindled.

Of course those farming the gas (I dunno what you would call a group of wells or fraking set ups) do not have to increase the prices they just are because of supply and demand meaning the rest of us have to pay the extra while the oligarchs are laughing all the way to the bank

Just for one minute think what will happen Russia does invade the Ukraine and the UK and EU start sanctioning them and they decide to either cut off the gas line or increase the price even more. Shell won't mind but the rest of us will

Gas price has nohing to do with "oligarchs" Russia at present is delivering the gas that was ordered.So there's no blame there.

That said demand has risen because wind power dropped off due to lack of wind.who'd of thought?

So, any coumtry relying on renewable power now had to purchace more gas to keep the lights on.

When you have to purchse more gas you have to do it on the international market. Supply and demand, Asia is driving the price up, not Russia.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Gas price has nohing to do with "oligarchs" Russia at present is delivering the gas that was ordered.So there's no blame there.

That said demand has risen because wind power dropped off due to lack of wind.who'd of thought?

So, any coumtry relying on renewable power now had to purchace more gas to keep the lights on.

When you have to purchse more gas you have to do it on the international market. Supply and demand, Asia is driving the price up, not Russia.

Those who farm and sell the gas choose the price. Asia using more gas does not increase the price greed does

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Let's be really honest they wouldn't do anything if they didn't think votes would be lost if they did nothing and it's clearly not their fault, 12 years in power isn't enough time to sort anything out

I said governments 30 years ago

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I said governments 30 years ago

I know what you said and disagree with you, 12 years they've had to see the problems previous regime's have left and correct them or at least put plans in place , the fact they haven't is down to them, no one else

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Those who farm and sell the gas choose the price. Asia using more gas does not increase the price greed does

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------



I said governments 30 years ago

The prices are not being set by the sellers, they are being set by the buyers. That is how auctions work.

About half of the UK’s gas comes from the North Sea, and a third is sourced from Norway. The rest is made up of imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) transported to Britain by sea from countries such as Qatar and the US. The Russian gas that the UK [less than 5%] receives comes in LNG form.
These LNG supplies are very sensitive to global market prices and are sold to those offering the highest price.

In recent decades, demand for gas in some regions like Asia and the Middle East has risen sharply.
This has knock-on effects on the market for liquified natural gas (LNG), which makes up about a quarter of Europe's imports.
When demand for LNG is high, supplies tend to be diverted to Asia to take advantage of rising prices.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I know what you said and disagree with you, 12 years they've had to see the problems previous regime's have left and correct them or at least put plans in place , the fact they haven't is down to them, no one else

we both have our points and they are both equally correct. No government in my lifetime have ever planned for the future as far as I can see

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

we both have our points and they are both equally correct. No government in my lifetime have ever planned for the future as far as I can see

Large-scale infrastructure projects are long-term and exceed the term of the government so are planning for the future. Look at Crossrail and HS2, for example.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Large-scale infrastructure projects are long-term and exceed the term of the government so are planning for the future. Look at Crossrail and HS2, for example.

Yeah and that is why I originally said that things should have been done 30 years ago

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Large-scale infrastructure projects are long-term and exceed the term of the government so are planning for the future. Look at Crossrail and HS2, for example.

I'd rather see more nuclear power plants.

Originally Posted by pip08456

I'd rather see more nuclear power plants.

Rolls-Royce’s new Small Modular Reactor should help here, but despite being designed to be far less complicated to build and operate, we’re not going to see one on the grid for a while yet as nobody’s actually signed up for one … AFAIK they’re still about 3 years off specifying exactly what they will build and where.

[nomadking]

And how exactly would gas storage solve anything?

Germany only has capacity for a quarter of their annual consumption, and it has to be filled up at the new higher costs. A quarter of Germany's gas storage is owned by GazProm.