UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

I would describe the word as something where someone has committed treason against it's own country.

Yes, and the word has not been used in that context. People are being very picky about meanings when it is pretty obvious what the person meant.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, and the word has not been used in that context. People are being very picky about meanings when it is pretty obvious what the person meant.

It’s obvious Boris means it in exactly the nationalist context.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This is not about definitions from the OED or Collins, Old Boy. It's the impact that this type of strong and emotive language has on some people when in common use by people in positions of power.

Except it is only strong when used in a certain context. If you choose to take it in its worse possible meaning, then you have misinterpreted the intent.

If I wanted to be cynical, I could say that the misinterpretation was deliberate.

So I won't.



---------- Post added at 18:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s obvious Boris means it in exactly the nationalist context.

No, it is not. You have no evidence for this. Certainly, I have consistently used the word to indicate that those trying to overturn the referendum result are traitors to the electorate and to the principles of democracy.

Where has anyone in authority claimed they are traitors to their country? No-one.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Your attitude, echoed by others, is based on assumption that you, and by inference, your position regards the current situation is without flaw or weakness. Whether you have arrived here through your own personal deliberations or by the acceptance of opinions from the various Leave leaning media sources probably is secondary. What is important is that this attitude, currently being espoused by Cummins et al. in No 10, is a sinister one.

It is sinister in that is allows no fault or challenge. It ignores the many facts that would, if presented alongside, would render it impotent. The subliminal message of this campaign is to encourage the weak minded to violence, rioting, etc. Moreover, it presents the challenge that if you attempt to argue with this process, the consequences would be dire.

Johnson's behaviour in the Commons is no accident. It is part of the plan. 2016 proved the playbook works. Just reuse it again.

Sinister describes Corbyn to a tee. And McDonnell.

There is nothing to fear about a no deal Brexit apart from fear itself.

[jfman]

They’re certainly not making the clarification otherwise. Treason is being used with surrender, it’s symbolism of surrendering in wartime, to Europe, and ties in perfectly with the World War 2 imagery that runs through almost all Eurosceptic propaganda.

Surrender requires an entity to surrender to. The word has no virtually usage outside wartime settings. It’s all nationalist rhetoric and you know it. It ill befits you to pretend otherwise to get a rise out of others on the forum. Especially when you are convinced nothing with stop Boris anyway...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Can we stop the deliberate use of pejorative terms designed to wind people up? This just goads people and encourages responses which gets the debate nowhere.

Humbug.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This is not about definitions from the OED or Collins, Old Boy. It's the impact that this type of strong and emotive language has on some people when in common use by people in positions of power.

Let’s be honest though, Brexit was born out of English nationalism, the only difference is Johnson doesn’t even see the point pretending that it didn’t.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

They’re certainly not making the clarification otherwise. Treason is being used with surrender, it’s symbolism of surrendering in wartime, to Europe, and ties in perfectly with the World War 2 imagery that runs through almost all Eurosceptic propaganda.

Surrender requires an entity to surrender to. The word has no virtually usage outside wartime settings. It’s all nationalist rhetoric and you know it. It ill befits you to pretend otherwise to get a rise out of others on the forum. Especially when you are convinced nothing with stop Boris anyway...

I don't recollect the word treason being used by the PM or any governnment minister, but again, there is more than one meaning to the word. One meaning is 'the action of betraying someone or something'. It is you that has decided that the word should be seen in the context of betraying one's country.

And before you mention 'treachery', that means 'betrayal of trust'.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Let’s be honest though, Brexit was born out of English nationalism, the only difference is Johnson doesn’t even see the point pretending that it didn’t.

Rubbish. Apart from the extremists, most Brexiteers see Brexit as liberating us from stifling EU laws, enabling us to make our own rules, and in particular forging much better trade deals that benefit this country, bringing more money in.

There are also many people at the lower income end who see free movement (which Labour now wants to maintain, apparantly) as driving down wages. Having our own immigration policy will allow us to let in the brightest skilled people from around the world to carry out tasks that need to be done at a higher level than we can provide from our own workforce. We will also bring in people with lower level skills such as nurses and carers where we don't have enough of our own people to fill the gaps.

But what is most exciting about Brexit is the opportunity that exists to trade with whomever we please on terms that suit us. The free tax ports announced by the PM are just the start of that transformation.

If that is what you mean by nationalism, fine. But it has nothing to do with unlawful discrimination, which is what you seem to be implying.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't recollect the word treason being used by the PM or any governnment minister, but again, there is more than one meaning to the word. One meaning is 'the action of betraying someone or something'. It is you that has decided that the word should be seen in the context of betraying one's country.

And before you mention 'treachery', that means 'betrayal of trust'.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------



Rubbish. Apart from the extremists, most Brexiteers see Brexit as liberating us from stifling EU laws, enabling us to make our own rules, and in particular forging much better trade deals that benefit this country, bringing more money in.

Yet your average Brexit voter can’t name a single “stifling EU law”, name a rule they would change, or identify a realistic trade deal of greater value than being in the EU.

There are also many people at the lower income end who see free movement (which Labour now wants to maintain, apparantly) as driving down wages. Having our own immigration policy will allow us to let in the brightest skilled people from around the world to carry out tasks that need to be done at a higher level than we can provide from our own workforce. We will also bring in people with lower level skills such as nurses and carers where we don't have enough of our own people to fill the gaps.

Perceiving freedom of movement to drive down wages and not unrestricted capitalism is their problem. Why doesn’t the Government raise the minimum wage? Do you support raising the minimum wage?

But what is most exciting about Brexit is the opportunity that exists to trade with whomever we please on terms that suit us. The free tax ports announced by the PM are just the start of that transformation.

If that is what you mean by nationalism, fine. But it has nothing to do with unlawful discrimination, which is what you seem to be implying.

I made no such claim, your accusation there is preposterous, you are clutching at the very extreme of a very thin straw with that one.

A reminder that this is a CURRENT AFFAIRS thread dedicated to DEVELOPMENTS in the Brexit process.

Further pointless bickering over semantics and petty insults aimed at “typical” remainers or leavers must STOP NOW.

Infractions will follow if members cannot make relevant, reasonably polite contributions to the topic.

[richard s]

Farage announces he is to stand at the next general election... may our country survive!

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by richard s

Farage announces he is to stand at the next general election... may our country survive!

well he all ready failed 7 times so he wont be too surprised to make it 8

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dave42

well he all ready failed 7 times so he wont be too surprised to make it 8

It will depend on what constituency he decides to fight in.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by denphone

It will depend on what constituency he decides to fight in.

he thought he had win in the bag last time Den and remember he is a very divisive figure

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dave42

he thought he had it in the bag last time Den and remember he is a very divisive figure

Indeed like Johnson and Corbyn he is a very polarising figure.

Brexit Party is a much better funded and so far organised outfit than UKIP. He'll probably win a seat this time, especially since it'll be carefully selected.