Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by ianch99

My outage is not fake I assure you. You may not have a problem with thugs intimidating MP's but I do ..

Except if it's JRM and his kids or Boris....

---------- Post added at 11:36 ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So you were aware of the terms of the exit deal that the UK/EU would negotiate too?

Some people just do not get it - people voted to leave the EU because they actually want to leave the EU in it's entirety, leaving meant exactly that to me - no deal all the way, we do not need to be in a 10% Economic bubble when the other 90% of it, is outside of EU, with rest of the world and we do not need to pay a con job membership fee to boot...

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Mick

Except if it's JRM and his kids or Boris....

---------- Post added at 11:36 ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 ----------



Some people just do not get it - people voted to leave the EU because they actually want to leave the EU in it's entirety, leaving meant exactly that to me - no deal all the way, we do not need to be in a 10% Economic bubble when the other 90% of it, is outside of EU, with rest of the world and we do not need to pay a con job membership fee to boot...

Note to self: if you miss a post where someone has been (inappropriately) insulting to a politician you disagree with, you are therefore not allowed to condemn similar objectionable actions made to a politician you may agree with. Got it ..

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

So you were aware of the terms of the exit deal that the UK/EU would negotiate too?

You’re late to the party with this particular line of argument.

A so called “Hard Brexit” (although that term didn’t exist at the time) is what was on offer at the referendum.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Except if it's JRM and his kids or Boris....

---------- Post added at 11:36 ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 ----------



Some people just do not get it - people voted to leave the EU because they actually want to leave the EU in it's entirety, leaving meant exactly that to me - no deal all the way, we do not need to be in a 10% Economic bubble when the other 90% of it, is outside of EU, with rest of the world and we do not need to pay a con job membership fee to boot...

You voted to leave the EU without any idea of what that may mean to the country, actually let me rephrase that you don't care what happens to the country. You just want to be out of the EU, well, you may get what you want. But lets hope you're right. Because if you're wrong, you and your ilk possibly may have screwed this country up for future generations to come. But hey, not that you care about the future generations is it? It's just about you....

Several studies show short-mid term pain with long term potential pain too. Yet, funnily enough there's nothing showing long term benefit, I wonder why that is? Before you start your usual ranting about how you don't care about what studies say, and they're wrong, perhaps instead of being the equivalent of an ostrich with it's head in the sand or a child with it's fingers in it's ears going 'la la la la, can't hear you' perhaps, just perhaps be open to the thought that these studies could be right. After all, as a remainer (or remoaner depending on the level of childishness people may wish to stoop too) I'm prepared to accept that the exit may indeed be best thing to happen to the UK show me some evidence that supports it and hey i might even change my mind. But right here, right now all the evidence suggests we're about to take a very dangerous path.

To come back to another point you keep raising regarding people fighting and dying for democracy. I admire you for your respect of our service personnel most of us have exactly the same respect and a great deal of us on this board are at an age where we lost grandparents (and some even parents) to the horrors of conflict.

However whilst we should never forget the sacrifice people made, there comes a time when it shouldn't be used as an emotive battle cry to implement policy.

We've moved on as a world, we, as human beings are strongest and produce the greatest results when we work together, There's numerous example of this the ISS, Channel Tunnel to name just two. Brexit means to many people a step backwards not just economically but also as a society.

The British Empire and it's ideology died many many years ago. Many people who voted leave seem to think the departure from the EU will reinvigorate this, quite simply, it won't


Your 10% economic bubble without 90% is out of it is also completely wrong but tbh I dont have time right now to find the figures

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

You’re late to the party with this particular line of argument.

A so called “Hard Brexit” (although that term didn’t exist at the time) is what was on offer at the referendum.

Really, source please?

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You voted to leave the EU without any idea of what that may mean to the country, actually let me rephrase that you don't care what happens to the country. You just want to be out of the EU, well, you may get what you want. But lets hope you're right. Because if you're wrong, you and your ilk possibly may have screwed this country up for future generations to come. But hey, not that you care about the future generations is it? It's just about you....

Several studies show short-mid term pain with long term potential pain too. Yet, funnily enough there's nothing showing long term benefit, I wonder why that is? Before you start your usual ranting about how you don't care about what studies say, and they're wrong, perhaps instead of being the equivalent of an ostrich with it's head in the sand or a child with it's fingers in it's ears going 'la la la la, can't hear you' perhaps, just perhaps be open to the thought that these studies could be right. After all, as a remainer (or remoaner depending on the level of childishness people may wish to stoop too) I'm prepared to accept that the exit may indeed be best thing to happen to the UK show me some evidence that supports it and hey i might even change my mind. But right here, right now all the evidence suggests we're about to take a very dangerous path.

To come back to another point you keep raising regarding people fighting and dying for democracy. I admire you for your respect of our service personnel most of us have exactly the same respect and a great deal of us on this board are at an age where we lost grandparents (and some even parents) to the horrors of conflict.

However whilst we should never forget the sacrifice people made, there comes a time when it shouldn't be used as an emotive battle cry to implement policy.

We've moved on as a world, we, as human beings are strongest and produce the greatest results when we work together, There's numerous example of this the ISS, Channel Tunnel to name just two. Brexit means to many people a step backwards not just economically but also as a society.

The British Empire and it's ideology died many many years ago. Many people who voted leave seem to think the departure from the EU will reinvigorate this, quite simply, it won't


Your 10% economic bubble without 90% is out of it is also completely wrong but tbh I dont have time right now to find the figures

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------




Really, source please?

Originally Posted by Pierre

You’re late to the party with this particular line of argument.

A so called “Hard Brexit” (although that term didn’t exist at the time) is what was on offer at the referendum.

Was it though? Few advocates of Brexit at the time were saying we would have no arrangement with the EU. Vote Leave's official site said:

Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.

To me (Iceland to Russian border) is ETFA. The same people who backed the above campaign are now saying that's a betrayal of Brexit but it was their campaign arguing for it.

Originally Posted by Damien

Was it though? Few advocates of Brexit at the time were saying we would have no arrangement with the EU. Vote Leave's official site said:



To me (Iceland to Russian border) is ETFA. The same people who backed the above campaign are now saying that's a betrayal of Brexit but it was their campaign arguing for it.

Now now ... you’re not trying to redefine “hard Brexit” I hope?

During the referendum campaign, the leave side generally advocated leaving the customs union and the single market. The remain side generally warned that leaving the EU would entail leaving the customs union and the single market.

Throughout the campaign, everyone generally agreed that if we left the EU, we would leave the customs union and the single market.

After the result, the continuity remain campaign re-branded this position “hard Brexit”, claimed that nobody voted for it, and began to agitate for “soft Brexit”, which would in essence be continuing membership of the entire EU with the exception of its decision making processes (a very obviously dumb move - too dumb even for Theresa May).

However, nowhere, until now, have I heard anyone arguing that “hard Brexit” is the same thing as “no deal” brexit. The serious likelihood of us leaving without a deal doesn’t seem to have occurred to the usual remain suspects. Sure they’ve waved it round like a witch doctor’s stick trying to scare the natives but I really don’t think they thought it would happen - I always believed they were simply trying to push the government into the safest, quickest deal possible (I.e, on e again, basically status quo, leaving the EU on paper only).

I might be wrong actually. I thought Pierre was arguing for a no deal Brexit but now I can't see where I got the impression from.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You voted to leave the EU without any idea of what that may mean to the country, actually let me rephrase that you don't care what happens to the country. You just want to be out of the EU, well, you may get what you want. But lets hope you're right. Because if you're wrong, you and your ilk possibly may have screwed this country up for future generations to come. But hey, not that you care about the future generations is it? It's just about you....

Several studies show short-mid term pain with long term potential pain too. Yet, funnily enough there's nothing showing long term benefit, I wonder why that is? Before you start your usual ranting about how you don't care about what studies say, and they're wrong, perhaps instead of being the equivalent of an ostrich with it's head in the sand or a child with it's fingers in it's ears going 'la la la la, can't hear you' perhaps, just perhaps be open to the thought that these studies could be right. After all, as a remainer (or remoaner depending on the level of childishness people may wish to stoop too) I'm prepared to accept that the exit may indeed be best thing to happen to the UK show me some evidence that supports it and hey i might even change my mind. But right here, right now all the evidence suggests we're about to take a very dangerous path.

To come back to another point you keep raising regarding people fighting and dying for democracy. I admire you for your respect of our service personnel most of us have exactly the same respect and a great deal of us on this board are at an age where we lost grandparents (and some even parents) to the horrors of conflict.

However whilst we should never forget the sacrifice people made, there comes a time when it shouldn't be used as an emotive battle cry to implement policy.

We've moved on as a world, we, as human beings are strongest and produce the greatest results when we work together, There's numerous example of this the ISS, Channel Tunnel to name just two. Brexit means to many people a step backwards not just economically but also as a society.

The British Empire and it's ideology died many many years ago. Many people who voted leave seem to think the departure from the EU will reinvigorate this, quite simply, it won't


Your 10% economic bubble without 90% is out of it is also completely wrong but tbh I dont have time right now to find the figures

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------




Really, source please?

Me and my ilk?

Whose being bloody divisive now?

Hypocrisy much?

That’s just typical Remainer bollocks. I do care about this country, so do not ever assume otherwise, you don’t bloody know me. I care enough to know that our country is and has been stifled for years by the EU.

And I knew what I was voting for, I won’t be told by the likes of you, ever!!!

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

You’re late to the party with this particular line of argument.

A so called “Hard Brexit” (although that term didn’t exist at the time) is what was on offer at the referendum.

Agreed, mrmistofelees has missed many points from this debate.

He’s going on about Brexiteers, like me, voting to save British Empire, that’s not what I voted to leave for and I have said this before today, but because like you say, he’s late to the party, he’s missed many points from prior arguments that have been had..

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

Me and my ilk?

Whose being bloody divisive now?

Hypocrisy much?

That’s just typical Remainer bollocks. I do care about this country, so do not ever assume otherwise, you don’t bloody know me. I care enough to know that our country is and has been stifled for years by the EU.

And I knew what I was voting for, I won’t be told by the likes of you, ever!!!

Erm, because it is divisive. quite obviously.....

I can assume what i want, and funnily enough I can tell you what I want, or believe, thats the beauty of freedom of speech. You know... what people fought for?

Your attitude and subsequent refusal to listen to any other peoples point of view demonstrates to me that you couldn't give two hoots about future generations. So long as you're all right. that's my perspective/ I'm entitled to it as much as you are yours.

The difference here is Mick, my actions and those of individuals who share my viewpoint so far have not screwed this country. up for, there's a possibility however, that yours and people of your mindset may.

If I'm wrong, I'll apologise and say you know what people who voted leave were correct and we get it wrong. Are you prepared to do the same?

f you can live with yourself IF it all goes wrong without remorse or humility then as i say, you quite clearly don't give a tuppence about the future generations of our country.

We're old (ish) you and I, this is about giving future generations the best possible chance to succeed in life and the world, without the hardships that we, our parents or our grandparents had to suffer.


What is the likes of me btw ? Someone who's prepared to consider all of the options and listen to all of the opinions before preparing to leap of a cliff ?


MOD Edit: No discussion of reps in public.I expect you as a moderator to set a higher standard. obviously not.

Jings and crivvens. Are we actually still re-running the referendum debate here?

There is a basic lack of respect on show here. If we absolutely must keep rehearsing the arguments of 2016, then our starting point, on this forum at least, should be acceptance that we came to our conclusions thoughtfully and with the best interests of our country at heart.

Believe it or not it is possible for people to have the same intentions but come to radically different conclusions about how this should be pursued. That’s what politics is.

Voting for the return of the empire is absurd and beyond parody, as is claiming remainers are all north London metro-liberals who only worry about the cost of champagne and continuing easy access to their gîte.

Originally Posted by Chris

remainers are all north London metro-liberals who only worry about the cost of champagne and continuing easy access to their gîte.

I mean that does describe me but still..... (although I don't have a gîte)

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I expect you as a moderator to set a higher standard. obviously not.

I am not actually moderator, so wrong yet again, I am one of the site owners, so in essence you are on part my property - do not disrespect it or me!!!

I am entitled to say my 2 cents any way I choose to, if you don't like it, tough - the door is over there.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mick

I am not actually moderator, so wrong yet again, I am one of the site owners, so in essence you are on part my property - do not disrespect it or me!!!

I am entitled to say my 2 cents any way I choose to, if you don't like it, tough - the door is over there.

Apologies ‘site co owner’ if you can find anywhere where I’ve disrespected this site then please feel free to point it out and I’ll apologise

I’ll also assume you’ll be apologising for the disrespect inferred by the comment ‘remainer b**locks’ or bull**** (whichever one it was)

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Apologies ‘site co owner’ if you can find anywhere where I’ve disrespected this site then please feel free to point it out and I’ll apologise

I’ll also assume you’ll be apologising for the disrespect inferred by the comment ‘remainer b**locks’ or bull**** (whichever one it was)

Enough, this thread isn't about "you".

Now back on topic.