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Old 19-08-2018, 22:00   #1
dewi9
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Virgin Media Figures

I have just been 'upgraded' to the new Hub3 and am not happy. It seems many other clients/customers of VM are also not happy.

My main gripe is the poor wireless (wifi) throughput using this hub.

Virgin Media have a 'blow their own trumpet' page at http://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/speeds.html , which claims 'Hub 3.0 testing – “fastest WiFi” claim substantiation" and gives figures to support this claim.

Also given is a plan of the building and setup used to obtain the figures quoted,

Well, my situation is pretty similar, in that I am behind two walls from the hub location (equal to their kitchen).

Figures given are -
ch6 2.4GHz Samsung S4 Kitchen 42.550Mbps. This is using 'Vivid200' (the fastest) package.

I am on the 'normal' 100Mbps package, so should I expect half this figure (that is, 21.25Mbps) as the best I will ever get ? If so it is some distance from the 100Mbps I am paying for.

I appreciate that 802.11N is rated at a maximum of 450Mbps rather than 1300Mbps available with 802.11ac, but surely I should be getting more than the 18Mbps (yesterday) and 19.2Mbps(today) - both at 9:30pm.

I was getting 45 - 58Mbps on my old 2ac wifi box.
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Old 20-08-2018, 08:18   #2
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

you are absolutely correct, regardless of your tier, you should be able to get more or less the maximum throughput the device allows. As an example, if your devices were all ac compatible and you were on a 50mbit internet connection, then you should be able to get 50mbits without breaking a sweat. In my case, I have an ac router and my connection with VM is 350mbits and on my ac compatible devices I get 350mbits because it is only a fraction of the speed they are capable of. The communication between the router and clients is independent of the wan connection and can run at the maximum speed of the clients, the only thing which slows it down afterwards is the restriction VM places on it once it hits the network. In your case I would expect to be getting closer to the 100mbits but there are reasons why you might not be getting it.

I can't explain now because I have got to go to work, bbl.
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Old 21-08-2018, 11:18   #3
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

Wow ! Got up to a staggering 31.4Mbps on the speed test just now.

Must be everyone is at work ...

David
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Old 21-08-2018, 11:48   #4
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

that shouldn't really matter when it comes to wifi because as I said in my previous post the wireless connection between the shub or any router and the clients is independent of the wan connection.
The problem is one of two things, either congestion on the way connection as you have suggested in your second post or more likely a wireless settings issue on the shub.

The first one is easy to confirm or eliminate. Go to speedtest.net and do a speedtest on your wireless device and see what sort of result you get and then do the same thing on a wired device. Below is an example of what I have just done on my pc and phone:





This wasn't a perfect test because there was stuff running in the background while I done the tests otherwise the results would have been closer but for this example they are close enough and show my connection is absolutely fine. In your case, you are going to get one of two outcomes. If the results are similar, even if it is bad and around 35mbits, you know the issue is with the internet connection and not wireless performance and if so there are other things we can look at. If the wired connection comes back at 100mbits (which it should do) and the wireless device comes back at 35mbits then we know it is the wireless connection between the shub and the device which is the problem. The first thing that popped into my head yesterday was which band you were using. The shub is dual band and basically broadcasting 2 networks. One will be a 2.4ghz and one 5ghz and I am wondering if you have automatically connected to the 2.4ghz and it is running at "g" speed and not "n" which would explain your 25mbits throughput.
I don't use the shub in router mode so I can't tell you which settings to look at but I would check how the wireless network is setup, maybe change the ssids so you are clear which one you are connecting to and perhaps set the 5ghz to "n" only, connect to it and run the speed test again and see what result you get.

Let me know how thing go.
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Old 21-08-2018, 13:16   #5
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

Agree everything Mon General has offered.

But … VM's walls may not be compatible with your walls, for example. Or their Hub 3 was in an open space and not against another wall or cabinet.

What is the 2.4GHz speed when you're in the same room as the Hub 3? Then 1 wall away? Then 2 walls away (which I think you've given).
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Old 21-08-2018, 13:32   #6
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

I didn't want to get into that because I am of the mind that if you are that enthusiastic/passionate about your performance stats and look at the granular detail then you should know that you can do better than a shub 3.

As an example, below are 2 links for a site that I have used in the past both for helping other forum users as well as deciding which routers to buy for myself. The first link is a general link so you can see how you can compare what appear to be many similar spec routers and the second is a link to the wireless performance page in a review for my router (the Asus) so you get an idea of the sort of performance data you look at if you were to consider buying your own router (which would be a great idea).

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/old-.../74-wan-to-lan

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...owall=&start=2
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Old 21-08-2018, 14:33   #7
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

I have the same problems, my download speed via Ookla is reading 10.5 on my iPhone 6, and 13.6 on my PC, I am literally 2 feet away from the Hub 3 with my phone, and I am supposed to be on the highest tier BB speed, I never ever had this trouble when I had the SHUB2, absolutely ridiculous, I just switched the Hub 3 off for a few seconds to see if that would help but its just the same.
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Old 21-08-2018, 15:55   #8
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

this is my point though, if wireless is a big thing for you (and everyone else in general), whether it be for phones, tablets, laptops or wireless Sky boxes etc, then you need to invest in the proper equipment that can do the job as I have shown above. Today's wasn't the best result and you can see from below I have had better:



The slower speeds are when I have been out and about connected to access points in hotels and stuff and wanted to see what speed I could get.
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Old 21-08-2018, 22:06   #9
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

OK Sephiroth, I have done a bit of checking with my laptop (an old HP with dual band card).

Before that, however, I renamed the wifi networks VM*****-2 and -5, so I could see which was which.

Taking the VM setup as three rooms in-line, and calling them F,K,B (for front(hub)), K (kitchen) and B (back). my figures are as follows -

2.4G F= 48.5 K= 40.2 B= 43.1
5G F= 88.1 K= 82.3 B= 35.78

So 5g is the way to go it would seem.

I believe I would need to set the hub into modem mode and use a cat 5/6 cable to check further - is that correct ?

Thanks

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Old 21-08-2018, 22:21   #10
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewi9 View Post
I believe I would need to set the hub into modem mode and use a cat 5/6 cable to check further - is that correct ?
Nope for two reasons. Firstly, unless there was a major issue with the shub, doing a wired test in router mode should give the same result as modem mode so you can leave it as it is and just attach cables.
You dont need to do it anyway now because you have elimated the wan connection as the issue by getting 85mbits on 5ghz which is pretty much full speed. You have demonstrated that it is the shubs crappy wifi which is the problem and the best way to fix it is to buy a proper to replace the shub (which will have better wireless) or another router to work in conjunction with the shub and serve as an access point.

You also need to bear in mind the results are slightly skewed by the fact that you are using old technology which will give less than optimal performance (wireless adapter on your old laptop). If you have got a newer tablet or phone you can do the same tests for comparison and i think it would help in giving you a more realistic picture of what to expect.
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Old 22-08-2018, 01:21   #11
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

My Huawei P10 Lite works well on 5Ghz compared to my desktop.



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Old 22-08-2018, 21:22   #12
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

Thanks for all the help and advice. I will have to 'have a think' on things and try a bit of experimenting.

When using a pc with dual band pci card (rated at 300Mbps) how much difference does different chipsets and aerials make on throughput ? Has anyone had a play to try and find out ?

David
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Old 26-08-2018, 19:50   #13
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

So half the problem is that advertised wifi speeds are a joke.

2.4ghz only supports 802.11n, so with 1 antenna (a single stream) 150mbit is the maximum, but in practice it's more like 50-60mbit. I'm pretty sure the SH3 has 2 streams in 2.4ghz so max is 300mbit, the reality much lower.

5GHz supports 802.11ac but only if your device does. The SH3 supports 3 streams in this mode, which means 1300mbits, but there are close to zero client devices that support 3x3 MIMO. I think some of the Macbook Pros do, but not all, and that's about it.

This means that the BEST link speed from 802.11ac with most devices is 866mbit. Still sounds like plenty right?

Until your wife's old phone that only supports 802.11n on 5ghz in a single stream is downloading at 10mbit. That might easily use up 15% of the airtime, reducing the bandwidth for you by 15%.

Added to that, the access point itself cannot determine which frequency a client connects to, that is entirely up to the client. Even the ubiquti kit - which has an option to steer clients to 5GHz, does this simply by booting them off 2.4GHz if it thinks they support 5Ghz, and if they stay on 2.4ghz gives up.

VM have tested the wifi on the SH3, but don't forget it's an old device now. They tested it against a Homehub 4, which didn't even have 802.11ac. They also likely tested it in a mock house with only stud walls and no insulation between the plasterboard panels.

Your iphone 6 could easily be connected on 2.4ghz, where it is never going to achieve miraculous speeds. In fact, the iphone 6 only supports single stream in either 2.4ghz or 5ghz, and so that means 433mbit link speed on a perfect 802.11ac connection.

Given that you likely don't have a perfect connection, and there is a good chance that you are not using 40mhz not 80mhz channels, which halves your max link speed to 216mbit, there is every chance you are not going to see a perfect connection.

Added to this, routers and devices are advertised as "900mbit" if they support 450mbit on each band - which is clearly a lie as they can't connect to both at once.

In any case, if you really want good wireless performance, invest in 2x2 MIMO kit (e.g. not an iphone 6, the Oneplus 5T I have does it fine for example) and put up some proper access points, ubiquiti or similar.
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Old 27-08-2018, 10:35   #14
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

One should also point out the Test home being used has been optimised to produce the best result possible. All sources of interference eliminated and nothing said about what kind of walls.

I am lucky in that we live in a Victorian house which only has one brick internal walls and no insulation on the internal walls.
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Old 27-08-2018, 10:44   #15
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Re: Virgin Media Figures

The killer materials are MDF, metal, humans and stone. The 2.4 GHz signal degrades according to the amount of water in the material (its frequency being very close to the resonance frequency of water). The 5GHz signal degrades simply because its wavelength is so small that it is partially absorbed by all materials in its path.
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