Brexit (Old)

[Carth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Certain processes use a lot of energy, there is no getting around that.

Unless you move the 'industry' in question to a country that doesn't have many of the restrictions in place, therefore cheaper production and the ability to flood the market with your product . . . steel making for example

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Carth

Unless you move the 'industry' in question to a country that doesn't have many of the restrictions in place, therefore cheaper production and the ability to flood the market with your product . . . steel making for example

The processes still use a lot of energy wherever they are based. That is why green taxes are damaging. They unfairly penalize energy dependent processes.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Carth

If you search long enough you can find things that suit a particular argument.

I wonder how many 'Remain' owned businesses have also been offered tax breaks over the last 3 years?


anyway, IMO offering tax breaks to a business that makes £2.2bn profit stinks

I suppose that depends on how the tax break is used by the company.

Used to re-invest/invest in new ventures - new employment?

Used for dividends to be spent in the UK?

Used for dividends exported elsewhere?

As the recent world has shown, Free enterprise is the only model that works - perhaps with some controls at the edges for the protection of society.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

This is where it gets interesting.

Are the EU countries blinking? Maybe not Ireland yet; maybe not all; but the smoke signals are emerging.

Does it hinge on Geoffrey Cox providing a positive legal opinion?

Does it hinge on that Corbyn thing manoeuvring for power or will he give Labour a Free vote?

Would the best Tory psychology be to give their members a free vote?

So many variables that keep the risk high that there would be no deal.

I’d be happy with a deal that limits the backstop but not one that enshrines in treaty that the future relationship will be founded around a customs union.

It’s increasingly hard to read the runes here. The chaos is genuine. I don’t think anyone knows what will happen, and while I do believe the EU is hoping for a rebellion in the Commons sufficient to prevent a No Deal, I still don’t see them agreeing to the extension of A50 that Amber Rudd wants, unless there’s some sort of plan for what to do with the extra time.

Ireland meanwhile is truly cacking itself right now. Of that I have no doubt.

[Carth]

They've had no coherent workable plan for the last two years, I don't see an extra few months making a difference.

No Deal on its way

Originally Posted by Carth

They've had no coherent workable plan for the last two years, I don't see an extra few months making a difference.

No Deal on its way

I agree that’s the most likely outcome but I don’t discount a last-minute concession on the backstop in a legally-binding addendum to the withdrawal agreement. The EU has repeatedly said the agreement will not be reopened, and I don’t think they’re lying, because the main document doesn’t need to be re-written in order to resolve the problem. There simply needs to be legally binding clarification about the ways in which the backstop is terminated, if it is ever used.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

This is where it gets interesting.

Are the EU countries blinking? Maybe not Ireland yet; maybe not all; but the smoke signals are emerging.

Does it hinge on Geoffrey Cox providing a positive legal opinion?

Does it hinge on that Corbyn thing manoeuvring for power or will he give Labour a Free vote?

Would the best Tory psychology be to give their members a free vote?

So many variables that keep the risk high that there would be no deal.

I’d be happy with a deal that limits the backstop but not one that enshrines in treaty that the future relationship will be founded around a customs union.

Looks like it's members of the cabinet who are blinking at the moment - post 7749 refers.

[Carth]

It won't happen Andrew, if 'no deal' is removed from the table, then the EU have won a massive victory

[Sephiroth]

Those cabinet members were/are Remainers. Or did I misunderstand you. Where’s the wobble?

[1andrew1]

No only are cabinet and Tory MPs blinking, now even the Daily Express seems to have joined in.

FORMER World Trade Organisation boss Pascal Lamy dismissed claims from Brexiteers suggesting the UK would enjoy better trade regulations with international partners without a Brexit divorce deal with the European Union.
Pascal Lamy claimed a no deal Brexit would make "no sense" as British tradesmen would see tariffs and barriers instituted on all trade with the European Union.

The former World Trade Organisation (WTO) chief insisted the British Government should strike an arrangement securing continuity past March 29 because of the deep connection British and European business have built over the past 40 years. Speaking to Euronews, Mr Lamy said: "I know there’s a view on the Brexit side that they become independent, they regain control. "In a world which is globalising, integrating, I think it makes absolutely no sense."What would be the sense of having a regulation for 60 million people when the world is moving to zones who have regulations for 500 million or 600 million people? It makes no sense."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...Juncker-latest

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

The GROUP may make those profits, but the INDIVIDUAL companies won't. Cross-subsidies are not allowed. You could unfairly use profits from one company to prop up another, thereby putting competitors of that unprofitable company out of business.

The payments seem to be mainly related to excessive green taxes. Certain processes use a lot of energy, there is no getting around that. If there was, they would use it regardless of any green taxes.

Companies cross-subsidise loss-making divisions all the time. When you set up a company in a new country, that company may not make a profit for a long time. In the case of Eleven Sports in the UK, it may never make profits here before closing down. Mike Ashley is cross-subsidising House of Fraser with his other stores at the moment in the hope he can turn it around.
Where it becomes an issue is if a company is deliberately trying to drive competitors out of business so it can dominate the market unfairly. That's always a hard one to prove.

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

EU offers lucrative tax breaks to firm of billionaire Brexiter.

Will be interesting to see if he opens a factory in Bridgend or not.

There's no plan to open a factory in Bridgend. Ratcliff has suggested that Ford may wish to pitch to assemble his SUV there on a contract basis. Ford currently has an engine plant there. Magna in Graz, Austria which has contracts with Mercedes, Jaguar Land Rover and BMW is tipped as the most likely location.

---------- Post added at 11:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Those cabinet members were/are Remainers. Or did I misunderstand you. Where’s the wobble?

They're blinking by threatening to vote against the PM. They've kept their nerve upto now.

I see Jeremy Hunt is following in his predecessor’s footsteps, by causing outrage in the countries he visits whilst trying to do a Brexit deal.

This is my first visit to Slovenia as foreign secretary. Not the first visit in my life but my first visit in a professional capacity.

I'm really happy to be here as a fellow European country, the UK is very proud of the transformation there has been in Europe over the past 30 years.

It's a really remarkable transformation from a former Soviet vassal state to a modern European democracy, a member of the EU, a member of NATO.

A flourishing economy. Growing its tourism, year in and year out. This is really an example of Europe at it's best.

Milan Brglez,former president of the Slovenian parliament: “The British foreign minister comes to Slovenia asking us for a favour(to discuss with the foreign minister how to avoid a no-deal Brexit)while arrogantly insulting us. We were never a 'vassal state of the Soviet Union'."

Slovenia came from Yugoslavia, which was never a part of the Warsaw Pact (it was, in fact, part of the "non-aligned Nations" grouping).

[denphone]

Arrogance , ignorance and prejudice quite a common trait among some of todays politicians..

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I see Jeremy Hunt is following in his predecessor’s footsteps, by causing outrage in the countries he visits whilst trying to do a Brexit deal.



Slovenia came from Yugoslavia, which was never a part of the Warsaw Pact (it was, in fact, part of the "non-aligned Nations" grouping).

Ha ha now their a vassal state of the European union

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I see Jeremy Hunt is following in his predecessor’s footsteps, by causing outrage in the countries he visits whilst trying to do a Brexit deal.

Slovenia came from Yugoslavia, which was never a part of the Warsaw Pact (it was, in fact, part of the "non-aligned Nations" grouping).

Then again how many others knew that Yugoslavia was non-aligned? I only know, because I was told some time ago that they had been looking to buy a UK made anti-air missile system, which would be pointed in Russia's direction.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Then again how many others knew that Yugoslavia was non-aligned? I only know, because I was told some time ago that they had been looking to buy a UK made anti-air missile system, which would be pointed in Russia's direction.

Irrelevant what the average person in the UK understands about the former political alignment of Yugoslavia. But it is important for a foreign secretary to know or be briefed on such things when dealing with a successor nation.