Coronavirus

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You might be able to afford a taxi or have a willing friend or partner to drive you. Others may not be so fortunate and would have their freedoms compromised.

If you can afford to finance the running of a car you can afford a taxi or bus. Indeed these are the modes of transport for those that cannot afford to run a car.

The comparison doesn’t fly, no matter how much you may want it to.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Pierre

If you can afford to finance the running of a car you can afford a taxi or bus. Indeed these are the modes of transport for those that cannot afford to run a car.

The comparison doesn’t fly, no matter how much you may want it to.

Snowflakes don't think like that though...

Originally Posted by ianch99

The point I am making is that it not yet clear, beyond reasonable doubt, that the vulnerable are not disproportionately at risk.

"the vulnerable" are always at risk, and always have been, hence the name, covid is just one more virus on the list.

Originally Posted by ianch99

The number of people with Covid are still large in number and so the chances of encountering an infected person, when they have no obligation to isolate, is significant.

To quote a recent post "Total rubbish".
The number of cases in the UK (in the last 7 days) is 309,260, the population is about 67 million, so roughly 0.46%.
Many of those are of course unlikely to be out and about while ill, but even if you said 50% of them are, thats about 0.23% (about 1 in 430).
The vulnerable will already be taking precautions (as they always have) so the chances of them "encountering an infected person" are really quite small, not significant.

Originally Posted by nffc

Snowflakes don't think like that though...

Boris Johnson made a point that in Germany it's far less common to go into work if you're ill with a virus and maybe we need to think like that. I think that's a good way to go. Prior to COVID I think not only did people go into work with cold or flu symptoms but it was almost viewed as an amicable trait to get into work when ill. Obviously now a lot more people can work from home so it's easier to do.

[OLD BOY]

Well , the number of deaths has now reduced to below that of a normal winter. It’s time to stop obsessing about Covid.

Just take sensible precautions and stop demanding that those of us that want to get back to normal to stay indoors and hide in a cupboard.

We never behaved like this before and it’s time to get back to where we were. I’ve had enough of being controlled and so have most of us.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by nffc

So your answers to the questions? Or does that conflict with your view we should sit in hermetically sealed bubbles until the end of time just because viruses?

That is not my view and never said anything of the sort. I thought I was able to discuss the point rationally with you so we'll leave it there.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Boris Johnson made a point that in Germany it's far less common to go into work if you're ill with a virus and maybe we need to think like that. I think that's a good way to go. Prior to COVID I think not only did people go into work with cold or flu symptoms but it was almost viewed as an amicable trait to get into work when ill. Obviously now a lot more people can work from home so it's easier to do.

But in Germany, the support is so much better:



What if you cannot afford to stay at home?

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Damien

Boris Johnson made a point that in Germany it's far less common to go into work if you're ill with a virus and maybe we need to think like that. I think that's a good way to go. Prior to COVID I think not only did people go into work with cold or flu symptoms but it was almost viewed as an amicable trait to get into work when ill. Obviously now a lot more people can work from home so it's easier to do.

So the system needs to be changed to allow that to become the norm.


They seem to have decided to lapse the legal requirement to self-isolate with a similar lapsing with SSP back to pre-pandemic levels. Ultimately this is probably the right way to do it; temporary legislation forced the change and the actual details are probably somewhere else.


But it should definitely be the case that people shouldn't have to go into work if they are ill with something which could infect others. And this should have always been the case before COVID - the immunocompromised people have to work too and if someone goes in with something which is mild to them then it might make them ill, or if someone else in the office who is healthy lives with an immunocompromised partner, parent, or child, then they could take the illness home. It's common sense to suggest that these people should be working from home if they are well enough and if their job allows them to, and if not, they should be off sick until they are better, and their SSP supports this. There should also be similar measures of support for people on things such as zero hours/flexible contracts or self-employed people who are booked in to work on a less concrete basis and they should also be covered for the jobs they would have done were they not ill. People shouldn't have to make the choice of whether to go into work ill and be able to pay the bills or be off ill and not be able to pay.



Given that a fair amount of firms with office based staff are only likely to be planning a part time / flexible working approach where they work some days at home and some in the office, and with this being created during various periods of restrictions, it's something more employers have the facility to do anyway, and which having set up they're less likely to then change back at least straight away or permanently.


Much as I don't think they work for the general public who are not ill, I can also see that people will take to wearing masks if they have to go out and aren't feeling well, are in a hospital environment, or are on crowded public transport where there is a higher risk of transmitting disease. It would be good if this was continued, for people to be encouraged to wear better masks and not the disposable paper or cheap cloth masks as they have a better effect.



There are clearly a few ways we can do things differently now the pandemic has largely finished here.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What if you cannot afford to stay at home?

That's the problem right there.
Many people aren't lucky enough to have an employer that pays full sick pay from day one. They have to rely on SSP and the 3 waiting days . . which nets them a 'wage' of just under £40 for the first week of sickness and a shade under £100 every week after that.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

I understand what you're saying, but if I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong.

Brilliant answer.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

That's the problem right there.
Many people aren't lucky enough to have an employer that pays full sick pay from day one. They have to rely on SSP and the 3 waiting days . . which nets them a 'wage' of just under £40 for the first week of sickness and a shade under £100 every week after that.

Exactly.
That's why the behaviour in Germany is more about hard cash than anything else, as ianch99 has highlighted.

[tweetiepooh]

There is one change from pre-covid and that is that many companies have now shown that some staff can work from home and do so well. They have also put in the infrastructure to allow this to happen. So unlike pre-covid if you do feel unwell there is a better chance that you can stay at home and continue to work.
This doesn't quite work for other jobs but many of them are outside or not in closed spaces so maybe less chance of infection. Of course if you need to travel to work on public transport...


I still have quite a few cheap Chinese masks so not going to buy others until they've gone and that will last a few months.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Carth

That's the problem right there.
Many people aren't lucky enough to have an employer that pays full sick pay from day one. They have to rely on SSP and the 3 waiting days . . which nets them a 'wage' of just under £40 for the first week of sickness and a shade under £100 every week after that.

A voice of sanity Thank you

[Taf]

From the week of 21 February 2022, the UK Health Security Agency will stop publishing dashboard updates at weekends.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

[nffc]

Yes, so today's figure will include all the positive tests for today, Saturday and Sunday, expect some people will react to it without thinking of that.