Coronavirus

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

Though it's clearly an issue internally, I'm not totally convinced that NHS staffing levels due to sickness absence etc (or maybe just unable to fill vacancies) should ever be used to decide whether to lock the country down. Even though patients need to be treated it would be like closing the country down because Tesco couldn't get anyone to deliver stuff to their shops.

I’m not sure how it’s different from any other barometer in which demand exceeds supply.

If Tesco didn’t get stuff to their shops I’d go to Asda. Or make do with what’s in the cupboard. If I were laid out on a surgery table after a car crash I can’t get up and get treatment elsewhere. Or make do with the fact I could treat myself.

If there’s a good reason to not have restrictions, it definitely isn’t underinvestment in the NHS after a decade of austerity.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Only 52% of NHS staff in 2020 were professionally qualified clinical staff.

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-info...tics/july-2020

The bureaucratic cost thus consumes a very high percentage of the budget that could have been used years ago to recruit and train additional medical staff. "Saving the NHS" is saving the bureaucracy as much as anything else. Once again, poor government has put us into this situation. This started in Blair's days when his lot became obsessed with internal markets and all the administrative bagged brought in with that.

Your premise is incorrect - if you dig in deeper, of the 1.17 million FTE staff employed -

Prof. Qual. Clinical staff - 610k
Support to clinical staff - 373k (these are the Healthcare Support workers, not Admin staff)

That’s a total of 983k directly involved in patient care - that’s 85%.

https://files.digital.nhs.uk/6F/9587...anisation.xlsx

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Now know 3 people with COVID , none of whom thought they had it. All were sure it was flu

So what alerted them in the end?

The Gov has to take a lot of blame for this. To this day, gov.uk says
"The main symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) are:

• a high temperature
• a new, continuous cough
• a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste"

That's at least 18 months out of date

[jonbxx]

My kids have been enjoying this years Royal Institution Christmas Lectures. The series title is ‘Going viral: How Covid changed science forever’ hosted by Jonathan Van Tam. The first two episodes exploring virus, the immune system, testing and epidemiology are up on iPlayer now with the final episode on tonight which is about vaccines and variants on BBC 4.

Well worth a view for secondary school level kids, especially those doing triple science GCSE who study this kind of thing at school in biology. Always loved these when I was younger and it’s certainly nice to see a very relevant series this year.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Only 52% of NHS staff in 2020 were professionally qualified clinical staff.

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-info...tics/july-2020

The bureaucratic cost thus consumes a very high percentage of the budget that could have been used years ago to recruit and train additional medical staff. "Saving the NHS" is saving the bureaucracy as much as anything else. Once again, poor government has put us into this situation. This started in Blair's days when his lot became obsessed with internal markets and all the administrative bagged brought in with that.

How does that compare to other countries?
The Doctors and Nurses do not exist to hire in the first place. It is NOT just a problem for the UK.
There are all sorts of support roles required, eg cleaners, porters, health assistants, cooking staff, maintenance. Try doing without them.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That statement says so much about your views - much more than you realise.

It’s basic risk management to put in place contingency for a potential increase in demand, not "weaponising the NHS*".

*did you get that phrase from the Telegraph or the Spectator?

David Miliband, actually. You’ve lost your sense of humour, Hugh.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Your premise is incorrect - if you dig in deeper, of the 1.17 million FTE staff employed -

Prof. Qual. Clinical staff - 610k
Support to clinical staff - 373k (these are the Healthcare Support workers, not Admin staff)

That’s a total of 983k directly involved in patient care - that’s 85%.

Ummm...
His statement was "Only 52% of NHS staff in 2020 were professionally qualified clinical staff."
Your figure quotes "Prof. Qual. Clinical staff - 610k", which is 52%, so how is it incorrect ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How does that compare to other countries?
The Doctors and Nurses do not exist to hire in the first place. It is NOT just a problem for the UK.
There are all sorts of support roles required, eg cleaners, porters, health assistants, cooking staff, maintenance. Try doing without them.

I think the answer is to train more nurses and doctors, using money saved from reducing administration costs, which are far, far too high.

[jfman]

https://www.nationalhealthexecutive....administration

So how does the NHS compare with health systems in other countries? OECD data estimates that the UK spends 1.2% of its current health expenditure on NHS administration versus an OECD average of 3%. The administration cost of voluntary health insurance schemes in the UK adds another 1.2% (bringing the overall total to 2.4%), despite covering only 11% of the population.

It would appear, by comparison to the private sector in the UK (and their entrepreneurial spirit!) and with other developed nations that the NHS is efficient at keeping administrative costs down.

It’s fundamentally a right wing trope used to justify not increasing NHS spending. Even if NHS administration costs were reduced to zero, nobody who says it would support then raising taxes to employ more nurses.

Originally Posted by spiderplant

So what alerted them in the end?

The Gov has to take a lot of blame for this. To this day, gov.uk says
"The main symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) are:

• a high temperature
• a new, continuous cough
• a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste"

That's at least 18 months out of date

Not necessarily - you can have all three, or just one and a combination of the other milder symptoms linked to Omicron, or no symptoms at all.

[Hom3r]

It about time we got tough.


Ban anyone who refuses the vaccine or a mask from entering any business (unless they have a doctor certify this).


The covid passport should be introduced, and those that don't show a valid QR code refused entry.


There is no discrimination as you have the option to get the vaccine, you discriminate yourself by refusing.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

It about time we got tough.


Ban anyone who refuses the vaccine or a mask from entering any business (unless they have a doctor certify this).


The covid passport should be introduced, and those that don't show a valid QR code refused entry.


There is no discrimination as you have the option to get the vaccine, you discriminate yourself by refusing.

Getting tough on the internet is a lot less painful than trying it in real life.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Mick

Not necessarily - you can have all three, or just one and a combination of the other milder symptoms linked to Omicron, or no symptoms at all.

Or just other symptoms.

The top five symptoms reported in the ZOE app were:

Runny nose
Headache
Fatigue (either mild or severe)
Sneezing
Sore throat

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think the answer is to train more nurses and doctors, using money saved from reducing administration costs, which are far, far too high.

1) It takes years to train them.
2) Why wasn't that done pre-2010?
3) If it was that simple, how come nowhere else(other than iirc Italy) in the 1st world has tried it?
Not enough people want to train in the first place.

Professionally qualified clinical staff make up over half (52.2%) of the HCHS workforce (609,829 FTE) in July 2020. This is 5.1% (29,472) more than in July 2019.

Originally Posted by Hom3r

It about time we got tough.


Ban anyone who refuses the vaccine or a mask from entering any business (unless they have a doctor certify this).


The covid passport should be introduced, and those that don't show a valid QR code refused entry.


There is no discrimination as you have the option to get the vaccine, you discriminate yourself by refusing.

Fortunately, nutters dont get to make such decisions.