Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[popper]

Toto didnt you read the many posts regarding the Opt-in and Opt-out its all a big con,you just dont see it happening, as no matter what option you use, the ISPs are passing your data to the Phorm Kit and so In the DPA terms processing your data.

and while you dont remove the right to process they think they can do it lawfully by changing the T&C, they cant, but thats for a small claim court to tell them, AND/or the DP IC bringing a case, IF YOU write that letter to them.

at the very least read this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...orm_documents/

and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...ripa/comments/

[Toto]

Thanks Ravenheart.

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

Originally Posted by popper

Toto didnt you read the many posts regarding the Opt-in and Opt-out its all a big con,you just dont see it happening, as no matter what option you use, the ISPs are passing your data to the Phorm Kit and so In the DPA terms processing your data.

and while you dont remove the right to process they think they can do it lawfully by changing the T&C, they cant, but thats for a small claim court to tell them, AND/or the DPA bringing a case, IF YOU write that letter to the them.

at the very least read this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...orm_documents/

and this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...ripa/comments/

I have sir, and I stress again that if the data cannot be linked to a data subject, then surely its not a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Its obvious from the BT Faq that its an automatic opt in, with what amounts to in my opinion a very weak opt-out system.

I hope BT get a shoeing over this, perhaps then, and only then will Carphone Warehouse and VM sit up and listen.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Toto

Its a spanking good idea......we still need to establish though if this Phorm system actually breaches the DPA, and the only person who can say so with any real authority is the Information Commisioner. He would then need to be challenged in court if he said the information passed to Phorm did not breach the DPA in its current form.

Who's got the cash to do that?

its VM, BT and the other one in this case, that you stop them passing the data to Phorm or any other 3rd party, its your property to do with as YOU please not the companys you allow to process it.

as for the unlikely event the IC allowing the breach, you can always use a simple small claim in the county court.

for info on that go read the many CAG bank charges/CRA threads, theres one there i cant remember right now were one of the users took the information commisioner to task about there being NO LAW for the credit reference to retain data for so long, infact they dont legally have a right to hold it ever.

that thread proves the IC can be win over with just phone calls and legal letters, you will know it when you read it as its massive and full of good CRA/IC advice.

and thats the basis we would use if needs be, its hard to get the CAG threads going now as it seems many of the old bank charges peeps are not there now, but we as in everyone reading this and theReg threads should be fine if its taken seriously and you dont just read but contribute.

just an idea you understand as im getting fed up of repeating things over and over, infact im bored with the whole net and computers right now as im posting here and everywere and getting very little insightful interesting replys or even good tech story leads etc.....

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by Mick

The annoying factor is that I was told by the rep in retentions that the Phorm deal was mainly about protecting customers with anti-phishing protection. I had to correct him on that one though.

Am curious as to what the rep's reaction to this was, Mick. Did it actually educate them somewhat or could you tell that they really knew the truth and were just trying to side-step it with you?

[popper]

remember the search engine yahoo/MS browser IP tracking and the EU rules that say your IP is personal data so stop IP tracking, well VM are passing the IP in the clear to Phorm, and so processing your data ,THEN anoning it later....QED, covered by the DPA.

[Toto]

I'm all for getting my dues in court if needs be, I even won a small victory over my mortgage company when I was in some financial trouble back in 2000.

But I would also hope that significant voices can be a force for good. Branding and image is very important to any company that is allowed to use the Virgin Name, I really hope, nothwithstanding small legal victories for us poor old punters, that VM inhale the smelling salts, and start to win the fight for the fans.

---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------

Originally Posted by popper

remember the search engine yahoo/MS browser IP tracking and the EU rules that say your IP is personal data so stop IP tracking, well VM are passing the IP in the clear to Phorm, and so processing your data ,THEN anoning it later....QED, covered by the DPA.

The BT FAQ says that the IP address isn't passed to Webwise (Phorm), so the jury is still out as to whether VM will be passing IP data. No point in going to small claims courts if you can't get your basic evidence right.

The system appears to be cookie based. A good cookie tracking system doesn't need IP information, only a unique reference number or some other non personal descriptor.

[none]

BT Webwise technical trials to begin from mid-March 2008 - http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...art=0&tstart=0

BT users are having their 2p worth, and lets just say the response to Phorm is luke warm at best, with many questions and not so many answers.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Ravenheart

I hope you folks don't mind me posting this link, but I've been trying to alert as many folks as I can about the whole Phorm issue. After posting on a forum I'm a member of. the guy who runs it (BBC Journalist) gave me a link to this site, he seems to be getting some sort of dialogue with Phorm.

You can find the site here http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/

I hope this helps as he has some really useful stuff on there.

why would we, if you and he are doing your bit to keep some form of control over your personal data all the better, perhaps you might inspire other non posters to pop in and start posting in the threads, after all the more the meryer as it were....

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Ravenheart

I hope you folks don't mind me posting this link, but I've been trying to alert as many folks as I can about the whole Phorm issue. After posting on a forum I'm a member of. the guy who runs it (BBC Journalist) gave me a link to this site, he seems to be getting some sort of dialogue with Phorm.

You can find the site here http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/

I hope this helps as he has some really useful stuff on there.

Really good find....there's a link in that article to the patent pending for the Phorm system. Lets just say that I am glad of NoScript in Firefox.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Rob

Yes I could wait, and will vote with my wallet if it does get implemented in any way that might invade my browsing privacy.

But, I'd much prefer to be voicing my opinion now so that I avoid the hassle of having to move ISPs simply because some beancounter made a short sighted decision that could be avoided.

Well said. I have informed VM of my intention to cancel if they sell my data to this SPYWARE company. All i need now is the letter to confirm the change to terms and conditions and then i can give my 30 days

Perhaps we have been too subtle all this time so for any VM person interested USE PHORM I CANCEL ALL MY SERVICES WITH VM IMMEDIATELY and if we all do that and more importantly if they call us on it do it i think they will rethink a lot quicker.

[none]

Originally Posted by Sirius

All i need now is the letter to confirm the change to terms and conditions and then i can give my 30 days

Ditto.

What ISP have you chosen? BE?

Perhaps we have been too subtle all this time so for any VM person interested USE PHORM I CANCEL ALL MY SERVICES WITH VM IMMEDIATELY and if we all do that and more importantly if they call us on it do it i think they will rethink a lot quicker.

yup, agreed.

[Ben B]

So is it not enabled yet because when I go on it to opt out it says webwise is not enabled by your ISP...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

If not, Be here I come......

Me and you together

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Toto

The BT FAQ says that the IP address isn't passed to Webwise (Phorm), so the jury is still out as to whether VM will be passing IP data. No point in going to small claims courts if you can't get your basic evidence right.

The system appears to be cookie based. A good cookie tracking system doesn't need IP information, only a unique reference number or some other non personal descriptor.

Nice discovery question then to as how it works and how the hardware is integrated into the infrastructure?