Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

He still, like every other living Prime Minister, recommended we Remain.

And probably dead ones like Churchill would have done so too.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

And probably dead ones like Churchill would have done so too.

well he wanted a united states of Europe so it a certainty


http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Dave42

well he wanted a united states of Europe so it a certainty


http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

And so did I, but the Eurocrats botched it up, didn't they? The sooner we get out, the better for all of us. Time will prove me right on this.

---------- Post added at 07:38 ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

He still, like every other living Prime Minister, recommended we Remain.

H'mmm. Doesn't say much for the state of British politics!

---------- Post added at 07:39 ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

A party riven by deep disunity with a weakened leader being led by others sadly...

Yes, Labour is in a state right now. Oh...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And so did I, but the Eurocrats botched it up, didn't they? The sooner we get out, the better for all of us. Time will prove me right on this

You seem very confident of your position but do you have any supporting evidence? You made a valid, evidence-based case for TV migrating from channels to on-demand but this contrasts with your Brexit trade beliefs.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You seem very confident of your position but do you have any supporting evidence? You made a valid, evidence-based case for TV migrating from channels to on-demand but this contrasts with your Brexit trade beliefs.

Belief is a good choice of word:

an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

This will not matter if you have Faith. Faith is based on conviction rather than proof.

When Brexit plays out and those that repeat everyday that "I know what I voted for" discover that they are indeed worse off in a variety of ways, will of course accuse those who voted Remain that that they betrayed them and had we all "come together and acted positive", all would have been peachy.

There is no winning here: for those who voted to Leave and those who said Remain.

The sad part is that the sections of England who were duped into believing that their own personal situation was all the EU's fault and that Leaving will improve their own personal wealth will be disappointed. If they were asked at the time: "Would you vote Leave if it means you will be poorer in the short, medium and long term?" A lot of people would have said "No".

Anyway, the Trick was played and we are where we are. No problem really: we can all put on our Empire glasses and wave our Union Jacks. I mean, "When I was a lad, we were fine. We had no EU and we traded with most of the world. So where's the problem is just winding the clock back?"

The PM's shallow speech entreating we all "come together" was a waste of time. The country is fundamentally divided and the Tories are to blame, no one else. No excuse to blame Labour. Any political party who proposes a referendum winnable by a simple numeric majority that will radically change the structural & economic future of the country based on no plan and no ideas will be judged harshly by history.

The biggest joke of them all is when the very people who whined and complained for 40+ years about being in the EU now complain about people complaining we are Leaving ...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You seem very confident of your position but do you have any supporting evidence? You made a valid, evidence-based case for TV migrating from channels to on-demand but this contrasts with your Brexit trade beliefs.

My opinion is based on a huge number of reports, articles and observations on what is going on - I am sure there's a short snappy article I could lay my hands on, but I'm not spending time trawling through them.

However, I would point out that the Euro is by no means out of the wood, a number of southern EU economies are still in the mire and disaffection with the EU is increasing in EU countries. The EU is not willing to listen, and so this little powder jkeg will sooner or later explode.

What is more, the EU is the worse performing large economy and sooner or later the whole bureaucratic, rule bound mess will implode. This is not the Europe I hoped for back in the day.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Belief is a good choice of word:



This will not matter if you have Faith. Faith is based on conviction rather than proof.

When Brexit plays out and those that repeat everyday that "I know what I voted for" discover that they are indeed worse off in a variety of ways, will of course accuse those who voted Remain that that they betrayed them and had we all "come together and acted positive", all would have been peachy.

There is no winning here: for those who voted to Leave and those who said Remain.

The sad part is that the sections of England who were duped into believing that their own personal situation was all the EU's fault and that Leaving will improve their own personal wealth will be disappointed. If they were asked at the time: "Would you vote Leave if it means you will be poorer in the short, medium and long term?" A lot of people would have said "No".

Anyway, the Trick was played and we are where we are. No problem really: we can all put on our Empire glasses and wave our Union Jacks. I mean, "When I was a lad, we were fine. We had no EU and we traded with most of the world. So where's the problem is just winding the clock back?"

The PM's shallow speech entreating we all "come together" was a waste of time. The country is fundamentally divided and the Tories are to blame, no one else. No excuse to blame Labour. Any political party who proposes a referendum winnable by a simple numeric majority that will radically change the structural & economic future of the country based on no plan and no ideas will be judged harshly by history.

The biggest joke of them all is when the very people who whined and complained for 40+ years about being in the EU now complain about people complaining we are Leaving ...

A depressing but very true summation of the situation we've got ourselves in.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Belief is a good choice of word:



This will not matter if you have Faith. Faith is based on conviction rather than proof.

When Brexit plays out and those that repeat everyday that "I know what I voted for" discover that they are indeed worse off in a variety of ways, will of course accuse those who voted Remain that that they betrayed them and had we all "come together and acted positive", all would have been peachy.

There is no winning here: for those who voted to Leave and those who said Remain.

The sad part is that the sections of England who were duped into believing that their own personal situation was all the EU's fault and that Leaving will improve their own personal wealth will be disappointed. If they were asked at the time: "Would you vote Leave if it means you will be poorer in the short, medium and long term?" A lot of people would have said "No".

Anyway, the Trick was played and we are where we are. No problem really: we can all put on our Empire glasses and wave our Union Jacks. I mean, "When I was a lad, we were fine. We had no EU and we traded with most of the world. So where's the problem is just winding the clock back?"

The PM's shallow speech entreating we all "come together" was a waste of time. The country is fundamentally divided and the Tories are to blame, no one else. No excuse to blame Labour. Any political party who proposes a referendum winnable by a simple numeric majority that will radically change the structural & economic future of the country based on no plan and no ideas will be judged harshly by history.

The biggest joke of them all is when the very people who whined and complained for 40+ years about being in the EU now complain about people complaining we are Leaving ...

Well, Labour is part of the entrenched elite that so many people (not only in this country) have rejected. I can still hear snotty nosed Ed Miliband giving us all his pompous statements about how things were going to be 'because it's the right thing to do' which brought the worst out in a lot of people.

The fact that Labour would not address the mounting feeling of resentment about the Westminster and EU elite really does them no credit at all. The Conservatives have addressed it, so all credit to them for that.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

My opinion is based on a huge number of reports, articles and observations on what is going on - I am sure there's a short snappy article I could lay my hands on, but I'm not spending time trawling through them.

However, I would point out that the Euro is by no means out of the wood, a number of southern EU economies are still in the mire and disaffe tion with the EU is increasing in EU countries. The EU is not willing to listen, and so this little powder jkeg will sooner or later explode.

What is more, the EU is the worse performing large economy and sooner or later the whole bureaucratic, rule bound mess will implode. This is not the Europe I hoped for back in the day.

Old Boy, again you post things like the worst-performing large economy when this clearly isn't true. I don't pretend the EU's a bed of roses but it's not the worst-performing one and the EU 27 are growing faster than the UK at the moment. I encourage you to look at the evidence and then form your opinion.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Conservatives have addressed it, so all credit to them for that.

They haven't though, they had no plan and still don't ! Both Cameron and May campaigned for Remain, and didn't plan for any other result. Dave only had the vote to try and save his job. It must be the most selfish act of any PM ever. History will not judge him well.

Other than the fact the EU are our biggest trading partner another reason we really need to secure a decent trade deal with them is that it looks like the US deal isn't going to be so great for us: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-war-gg8x2pd6f

Theresa May protested to President Trump over his plans for tariffs on steel and aluminium imports yesterday amid warnings about the prospects for a UK-US trade deal.

Ministers rebuked the president for threatening a trade war after he announced that the US would impose duties of 25 per cent on imported steel and 10 per cent on aluminium in an attempt to save its domestic industry.

...


The Times understands that US State Department officials told MPs from the public accounts committee that the US-UK deal would follow an “America First” approach. In a private briefing before Christmas, they were told that it would not be possible to have a deal excluding agriculture, which would require Britain to lower standards.

“It was a brutal reality check,” one of the MPs at the briefing said. “They want to help us out but the deal must work for them and they made clear they are ‘trade warriors’.”

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

As for the tariffs themselves the EU are getting ready to respond: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...iffs-ctsw2m9fw

I smell a trade war!

Europe and the United States are on the brink of a trade war as Brussels begins drawing up up a €2.8 billion hit list of American products for retaliatory tariffs.

The EU is ready to strike at American brands such as Harley-Davidson and Levi’s in response to President Trump’s threatened levies of up to 25 per cent on steel and aluminium imports, heralding huge new export costs for European industry.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Other than the fact the EU are our biggest trading partner another reason we really need to secure a decent trade deal with them is that it looks like the US deal isn't going to be so great for us: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-war-gg8x2pd6f

The UK experienced another reality check today with regard to negotiating with the US.

The US is offering Britain a worse “Open Skies” deal after Brexit than it had as an EU member, in a negotiating stance that would badly hit the transatlantic operating rights of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic...
One person attending the London meetings to “put Humpty Dumpty back together” said: “You can’t just scratch out ‘EU’ and put in ‘UK’.” A British official said it showed “the squeeze” London will face as it tries to reconstruct its international agreements after Brexit, even with close allies such as Washington.

https://www.ft.com/content/9461157c-...c-0cd3483b8b80

[Dave42]

and still the Brextremists says it gonna be easy to do deals all living in fantasy island

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dave42

and still the Brextremists says it gonna be easy to do deals all living in fantasy island

As easy as pie of course but of course the actual real reality is starting to hit home now.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Old Boy, again you post things like the worst-performing large economy when this clearly isn't true. I don't pretend the EU's a bed of roses but it's not the worst-performing one and the EU 27 are growing faster than the UK at the moment. I encourage you to look at the evidence and then form your opinion.

Well, one of the worst. I agree that they did beat Japan.

However, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Brazil, South Korea, United States, Canada, Mexico, South Africa and Australia all did better.

The UK hasn't done so well just lately, but don't forget that we are in the EU stranglehold that we are prising ourselves free from, and our economic growth will go from strength to strength when we leave and put the Brexit uncertainties behind us.