20mph in Wales.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

The real issue is however who the hell is going to police a generalised 20 MPH? Resources are already squeezed for the police and local councils.

Millions of speed cameras? Repurposing potholes as "traffic calming" measures?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Heartwarming and compassionate, as always.

That's the problem with kids - they're kids, and often act without thinking (no matter how many times we tell them). The latest figures show that at 20mph, there is a 1.5% (1 in 66ish) chance of being fatally injured - at 30mph it's 8% (1 in 12ish); so driving 10mph faster increases the chance of a fatality over 5 times.

The trouble with your logic, Hugh, is that nobody obeys speed limits that are demonstrably too low.

Most people do not obey 20mph speed limits and enforcement is not adequate anyway. You could reduce the speed limit to 10mph if you liked, but it would make no difference.

Speed limits should be reasonable, otherwise they come into disrepute generally and people will just ignore them.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The trouble with your logic, Hugh, is that nobody obeys speed limits that are demonstrably too low.

Most people do not obey 20mph speed limits and enforcement is not adequate anyway. You could reduce the speed limit to 10mph if you liked, but it would make no difference.

Speed limits should be reasonable, otherwise they come into disrepute generally and people will just ignore them.

They might be too low in your opinion OB but they are not too low in my opinion.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The trouble with your logic, Hugh, is that nobody obeys speed limits that are demonstrably too low.

Most people do not obey 20mph speed limits and enforcement is not adequate anyway. You could reduce the speed limit to 10mph if you liked, but it would make no difference.

Speed limits should be reasonable, otherwise they come into disrepute generally and people will just ignore them.

As the owner of a car, you don't get to say what speed limit a road should be while driving. Either stick to the limit or surrender your license. I'm sick of drivers thinking it's ok to break any rules/laws they see fit because they don't like them.

[Taf]

There has been a guy on a bicycle riding in the middle of the road with a jacket marked with "20 is plenty". He really seems to enjoy holding up all the traffic as he dawdles along at 5mph.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The trouble with your logic, Hugh, is that nobody obeys speed limits that are demonstrably too low.

Most people do not obey 20mph speed limits and enforcement is not adequate anyway. You could reduce the speed limit to 10mph if you liked, but it would make no difference.

Speed limits should be reasonable, otherwise they come into disrepute generally and people will just ignore them.

I disagree - I have found, near me (where a lot of 20mph limits have come in in the last year) that most people have dropped their speeds - it may not be 20 (more around mid-20s), but every little helps.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Taf

There has been a guy on a bicycle riding in the middle of the road with a jacket marked with "20 is plenty". He really seems to enjoy holding up all the traffic as he dawdles along at 5mph.

If you're careful and just gently touch his rear wheel with your front bumper you can then accelerate him swiftly up to 20-30-40-95

Children (or adults) should not be playing in the middle of a road.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Who gives a toss? If they hit a child at 30mph, there is a five times greater chance of a fatality than if they hit it at 20mph.

All your casuistry, quibbling, and Gish-galloping doesn’t change those basic facts.

If they hit them at 10mph there is even less of a chance, if they hit them at 5 mph ... etc

Yes, it might be a "fact", but its a pretty pointless fact.
The only safe speed is 0 mph - by your argument we should all be stationary.

Originally Posted by Paul M

Children (or adults) should not be playing in the middle of a road.


If they hit them at 10mph there is even less of a chance, if they hit them at 5 mph ... etc

Yes, it might be a "fact", but its a pretty pointless fact.
The only safe speed is 0 mph - by your argument we should all be stationary.

My argument isn’t "all or nothing" - it’s mitigating the impact (in many ways) of speed; no one is advocating 10 or 0mph, that’s just a straw man argument.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mythica

As the owner of a car, you don't get to say what speed limit a road should be while driving. Either stick to the limit or surrender your license. I'm sick of drivers thinking it's ok to break any rules/laws they see fit because they don't like them.

I didn't say I did, did I? I said most motorists did not.

I am fed up with cars getting so close to my rear end when obeying the speed limit, some of whom overtake me in a dangerous manner in a bendy residential road.

It should be obvious to everyone (although sadly it isn't) that if you put a ridiculously slow speed limit on a road, most will ignore it. So what's the point, particularly if it actually encourages some to drive much faster and overtake.

Why don't we have a 5mph limit? Maybe with some guy in front holding a red flag, just in case pedestrians about to cross the road don't realise you are actually moving?

Ah yes, they tried that before, didn't they?

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I didn't say I did, did I? I said most motorists did not.

I am fed up with cars getting so close to my rear end when obeying the speed limit, some of whom overtake me in a dangerous manner in a bendy residential road.

It should be obvious to everyone (although sadly it isn't) that if you put a ridiculously slow speed limit on a road, most will ignore it. So what's the point, particularly if it actually encourages some to drive much faster and overtake.

Why don't we have a 5mph limit? Maybe with some guy in front holding a red flag, just in case pedestrians about to cross the road don't realise you are actually moving?

Ah yes, they tried that before, didn't they?

I was talking in general, maybe I should have made that more clear.

It shouldn't be obvious to anyone. That's the problem, too many morons on the road (and in general) who think they can get away with speeding, on the phone, tailgating and just general bad driving. We shouldn't stop with the limits, we should clamp down on motorists more. We aren't cash cows, you're only a cash cow if you're not obeying the law.

[tweetiepooh]

It not just the limit that's the problem, it's the speed driven. The limit is the highest speed you should do and should be set relevant to the fixed conditions. The actual speed should be to the actual conditions not exceeding the limit.

It doesn't matter if the limit is 20/30/40 whatever, if the conditions suggest otherwise (kids playing/crossing/weather) slow down, be aware. The police can fine you under the limit if they believe your speed is inappropriate.

Maybe there should be "variable" limits brought in so when amber lights are on at schools there is a mandatory drop in limit to 20 regardless of the normal limit. This doesn't mean you don't take care if kids are around and the lights are off.

And earlier comments are also true, 20mph limits in our town centre are generally ignored and because it's mostly one-way you will likely get overtaken on either side if you do keep to the limit.

[Taf]

Taxi drivers must be feeling happy. Slower traffic equals more time per journey, so more income for them.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Taf

Taxi drivers must be feeling happy. Slower traffic equals more time per journey, so more income for them.

You're joking aren't you? Some taxi drivers are the worst at speeding.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Mythica

You're joking aren't you? Some taxi drivers are the worst at speeding.

Maybe between fares, but they always slow down once a fare is on board. Time is money as in "more time, is more money".