Online Safety Bill

50 years ago in school caning was a common everyday occurrence.Then it was banned.Then we had on the spot detention.Then that was banned and it became a dance around organised detaining after school or during playtime instead.The pupils just stayed away from school with parents connivance on the whole.

Then Mobile phones arrived and parents stupidly decided little johnny had to be safe in school with his mobile permanently in his grasp.So teachers had to insist that mobiles had to be placed in the teachers possession for the duration of a lesson.You can imagine what a kerfuffle that placed in every lesson because students would just hide their mobile about their person..

it's all gotten ridiculous trying to instill common rules and regulations since and some parents seem to entirely misunderstand what education and schools are for. they just regard it as the ways and means for them to be able to work and have free childcare between the ages of 4-16.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Maggy

50 years ago in school caning was a common everyday occurrence.Then it was banned.

God forbid we should violently assault children?

Then we had on the spot detention.Then that was banned and it became a dance around organised detaining after school or during playtime instead.The pupils just stayed away from school with parents connivance on the whole.

Detention during school time is fine, detention o/s of school hours can impact the care schedule that working parents have in place.

Then Mobile phones arrived and parents stupidly decided little johnny had to be safe in school with his mobile permanently in his grasp.So teachers had to insist that mobiles had to be placed in the teachers possession for the duration of a lesson.You can imagine what a kerfuffle that placed in every lesson because students would just hide their mobile about their person.

Any school with a competent administration can police the use of mobile phones in school.

The one my child goes to does.

it's all gotten ridiculous trying to instill common rules and regulations since and some parents seem to entirely misunderstand what education and schools are for. they just regard it as the ways and means for them to be able to work and have free childcare between the ages of 4-16.

Ridiculous that we can’t beat children, inconvenience working parents or manage our own schools competently, You’re right.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Maggy

50 years ago in school caning was a common everyday occurrence.Then it was banned.Then we had on the spot detention.Then that was banned and it became a dance around organised detaining after school or during playtime instead.The pupils just stayed away from school with parents connivance on the whole.

Then Mobile phones arrived and parents stupidly decided little johnny had to be safe in school with his mobile permanently in his grasp.So teachers had to insist that mobiles had to be placed in the teachers possession for the duration of a lesson.You can imagine what a kerfuffle that placed in every lesson because students would just hide their mobile about their person..

it's all gotten ridiculous trying to instill common rules and regulations since and some parents seem to entirely misunderstand what education and schools are for. they just regard it as the ways and means for them to be able to work and have free childcare between the ages of 4-16.

One teacher friend has actually said that school is in effect a babysitting service these days.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

One teacher friend has actually said that school is in effect a babysitting service these days.

I’m amazed anyone sees it as anything else for 95%+ of pupils. Very few things, if any, taught in a classroom today will have any relevance to work in 2045. Teaching is very much a gravy train for some families though of second and third generation teachers. Solid public sector employment, decent pension, nice holiday entitlement. So the industry has to pretend otherwise, academia sees the pound signs coming their way too so very happy to play along.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

One teacher friend has actually said that school is in effect a babysitting service these days.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m amazed anyone sees it as anything else for 95%+ of pupils. Very few things, if any, taught in a classroom today will have any relevance to work in 2045. Teaching is very much a gravy train for some families though of second and third generation teachers. Solid public sector employment, decent pension, nice holiday entitlement. So the industry has to pretend otherwise, academia sees the pound signs coming their way too so very happy to play along.

I’ll take a wild assumption here, in that neither of you have kids, or kids of school age and definitely not kids of secondary school age.

Happy to be wrong, but please do let me know.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’ll take a wild assumption here, in that neither of you have kids, or kids of school age and definitely not kids of secondary school age.

Happy to be wrong, but please do let me know.

I’m not sure someone needs to have kids to have been through the education system themselves and decide on balance it’s primary function is to give kids somewhere to be to allow their parents to work first and educate some distant position further down than that.

Outside those with academic aspirations the system offered very little in terms of skills needed to get into a trade. People who make a success of themselves in a trade often do so despite the system, rather than because of it.

And I went to school before entire bits became dedicated to pronouns.

(Whether there’s societal value in this is a separate argument, but the housing market won’t prop up itself on the basis of one income households)

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not sure someone needs to have kids to have been through the education system themselves and decide on balance it’s primary function is to give kids somewhere to be to allow their parents to work first and educate some distant position further down than that.

Outside those with academic aspirations the system offered very little in terms of skills needed to get into a trade. People who make a success of themselves in a trade often do so despite the system, rather than because of it.

And I went to school before entire bits became dedicated to pronouns.

(Whether there’s societal value in this is a separate argument, but the housing market won’t prop up itself on the basis of one income households)

I do recall hearing a few years ago that the less academic kids were to be introduced to vocational preparation at the age of 14 I think with work experience etc. I remember thinking at the time that this was a good idea.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:12 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m amazed anyone sees it as anything else for 95%+ of pupils. Very few things, if any, taught in a classroom today will have any relevance to work in 2045. Teaching is very much a gravy train for some families though of second and third generation teachers. Solid public sector employment, decent pension, nice holiday entitlement. So the industry has to pretend otherwise, academia sees the pound signs coming their way too so very happy to play along.

One of my senior teacher friends has recently taken early retirement. He says that some of the kids are now impossible
to teach.

Upon entering the classroom two girls had turned their chairs round so that they had their backs to him. After he had dealt with this behaviour and completed the lesson the headmaster called him in as he had had a complaint from these girls for 'raising his eyebrows in an aggressive manner'! I told him that when I was at school it would have been the kids who would have been in trouble for their rude & disrespectful behaviour. He said that noe kids & teachers are treated as equals and both have a right to speak to the headmaster about the situation.

Later on he was admonished for marking a book in red as this was considered to be 'passive aggressive'. He said that this, and the fact that his salary had been cut in real terms by about 20% since 2010, is what made him decide to leave the profession.

In my time at school we had to stand up everything a teacher entered the classroom, but these days I can understand why there is a shortage of teachers.

How do you raise your eyebrows in an aggressive manner

[jonbxx]

To give some insight on how online safety is taught in schools, we had the news on the other day when the William Wragg issue blew up. I asked my 15 year old what she would do in that situation and the answer was immediate - block and report. She asked why and we told her about the issue with William Wragg and she called him an idiot!

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Paul

How do you raise your eyebrows in an aggressive manner

If the headmaster is entertaining nonsense like this and actually calling in a head of year teacher in for a chat about it there's something seriously wrong.

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

To give some insight on how online safety is taught in schools, we had the news on the other day when the William Wragg issue blew up. I asked my 15 year old what she would do in that situation and the answer was immediate - block and report. She asked why and we told her about the issue with William Wragg and she called him an idiot!

The difference is thar Wragg was on a gay pick up site, so it wouldn't be unusual for strangers to contact people.

However, sharing the details of a sensitive job (perhaps he was showing off to try and appear more attractive?) and sending compromising pictures (I assume this will be naked photos) with a stranger was an idiotic thing to do.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

However, sharing the details of a sensitive job (perhaps he was showing off to try and appear more attractive?) and sending compromising pictures (I assume this will be naked photos) with a stranger was an idiotic thing to do.

Yep, that’s the point. My kids knew about what they should and shouldn’t do and share online in primary school. Their school is excellent on continuous reinforcement of this and come down on anyone like a ton of bricks on anyone perpetrating cyber bullying and the like.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Yep, that’s the point. My kids knew about what they should and shouldn’t do and share online in primary school. Their school is excellent on continuous reinforcement of this and come down on anyone like a ton of bricks on anyone perpetrating cyber bullying and the like.

Excellent I'd like to see this rolled out to every school. Adults who the children don't know or who aren't related shouldn't be messaging kids. Even if it starts out innocuous it often turns sexual before too long.

[RichardCoulter]

Being reported on the Radio 4 PM news programme that the police have received more than 7,000 complaints in the first week of the new law that forbids the stirring up of hatred for the following vulnerable groups relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Being reported on the Radio 4 PM news programme that the police have received more than 7,000 complaints in the first week of the new law that forbids the stirring up of hatred for the following vulnerable groups relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.

So what public services will lose some of there funding to pay for all of the police time dealing with frivolous complaints potentially raised by bully's and lets face it trolls who are targeting people they just don't like or have some sort of grievance. I do understand some might be genuine but the police MUST release details of how many were not genuine or had no case to answer. Also how many police officers will be taken off front line duties to deal with the mess.

To highlight what i am getting at

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...hate-crime-law

First minister calls for end to vexatious reports after far-right agitators attempt to ‘overwhelm’ official systems

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...hate-crime-law

Only 3.8% of hate crime law complaints authentic so far, says Police Scotland

Official data for first week shows 7,152 reports received though nearly half of those were made on 1 April

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...de-first-week/

Police Scotland received 7,152 complaints under Scotland’s new hate crime law in the first week of operation, the force has announced.

However, the vast majority resulted in no action being taken - with only 240 hate crimes recorded.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...f-new-law.html

Police Scotland received nearly 7,800 reports of hate crime under Scotland's new law in the first week of operation - with three per cent of the reports resulting in a recorded offence, the force has said.

The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act was enacted on April 1 and since then police say they have logged 7,152 reports of hate made online, alongside 400 police logged hate reports and a handful of complaints made by phone or email.

Police say the vast number of reports of online hate received during the first week - many of which were targeted at JK Rowling and First Minister Humza Yousaf - were anonymous. They were assessed against the legislation and no action was taken.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ce-jk-rowling/

The law hinders free speech’

Readers suggested Scotland’s new hate crime law will create more problems than it will solve, with many voicing support for JK Rowling, while blaming the SNP for bringing the law to fruition.

Simon Lucas thinks it’s a “joke” that a senior SNP politician, Karen Adam, said the author was wasting police time.

He wrote: “The SNP is wasting police time by introducing this terrible legislation. Even with proof staring them in their eyes, they can’t bring themselves to admit it was a mistake and instead place the blame elsewhere. It’s leadership at its worst.”

As a Scot living in England, Laura Urwin finds it “heartbreaking that the SNP has in a few short years reduced a once proud nation to a laughing stock”.

She added: “The experiment of devolution has failed, and powers should be taken back by Westminster.”

Wendy Berwick surmised: “Well, Police Scotland scored a pretty dreadful own goal by announcing that every reported incident of ‘hate crime’ would be investigated.

“The rest is completely predictable. Another fine mess, courtesy of the SNP.”

Concerning freedom of speech, Derek Milne argued “the SNP has grossly misused its power enforcing a law that effectively criminalises free speech”.

Luca Sandor shared this sentiment: “It’s a gagging law. It hinders free speech. And is a way of controlling the free press.”

‘Of course the police can’t cope’

As front-line officers warned they “can’t cope” with the surge, readers debated if the increase in hate crime reports was inevitable and suggested ways the police could have prepared."

My point is that this is a charter for anyone to ether raise a complaint anonymously just to tie up the police or to target someone in a grudge action similar to the Swatting occurrences in America.

Maybe the SNP will introduce a blasphemy law next with weekly stoning in town centres


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciENFKUelY

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Being reported on the Radio 4 PM news programme that the police have received more than 7,000 complaints in the first week of the new law that forbids the stirring up of hatred for the following vulnerable groups relating to age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or being intersex.

The majority of complaints are against Humza Yousaf or JK Rowling. None of which are being pursued. Make of that what you will.