Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Just saw a well placed point said elsewhere....Scotland wants to leave UK vaccination program to join the EU vaccination disaster?

Ok then.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Just saw a well placed point said elsewhere....Scotland wants to leave UK vaccination program to join the EU vaccination disaster?

Ok then.

Scotland can't hold a referendum, negotiate independence and join the EU within the timeframe of Covid vaccination.

Whoever said it was plainly incorrect, seeking to misrepresent the situation. A frequent unionist pitfall.

Originally Posted by jfman

Scotland can't hold a referendum negotiate independence and join the EU within the timeframe of Covid vaccination.

Whoever said it was plainly incorrect, seeking to misrepresent the situation. A frequent unionist pitfall.

The bit you said, that I have highlighted in bold was legally correct. The rest was separatist hyperbole.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

The bit you said, that I have highlighted in bold was legally correct. The rest was separatist hyperbole.

Has the court of session ruled on that yet or is this another example of opinion presented as fact?

One man's uncomfortable truths are another man's seperatist hyperbole.

I've said before unionists struggle to make a compelling case for the union to people who are likely to vote independence and I think this is another glaring example.

Originally Posted by jfman

Has the court of session ruled on that yet or is this another example of opinion presented as fact?

One man's uncomfortable truths are another man's seperatist hyperbole.

I've said before unionists struggle to make a compelling case for the union to people who are likely to vote independence and I think this is another glaring example.

How the tables have turned - you're a damn hypocrite jfman.

There are far more benefits to keep the union and I am not talking about England keeping Scotland.

Scotland would be out in the cold, with no currency, would need to apply to join the EU, Spain could scupper this for you. Your precious SNP is currently got a crisis of it's own that could see Nicola "Looks as though she wears a dress size too small" Sturgeon booted, for potentially lying re: Multiple Turkey necker, Alex Salmond.

[Stephen]

I just wish the SNP and there independence at any cost rhetoric would just bugger off.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I just wish the SNP and there independence at any cost rhetoric would just bugger off.

Agreed, once in a generation wasn't it....

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Has the court of session ruled on that yet or is this another example of opinion presented as fact?

One man's uncomfortable truths are another man's seperatist hyperbole.

I've said before unionists struggle to make a compelling case for the union to people who are likely to vote independence and I think this is another glaring example.

It took 4.5 years for the UK to leave the EU after the referendum. For Scotland to vote to leave the UK and to join the EU in less than a year requires the smoking of a particularly strong brand of cigarette.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It took 4.5 years for the UK to leave the EU after the referendum. For Scotland to vote to leave the UK and to join the EU in less than a year requires the smoking of a particularly strong brand of cigarette.

Yes and we all know why it took 4.5 years don't we?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

How the tables have turned - you're a damn hypocrite jfman.

There are far more benefits to keep the union and I am not talking about England keeping Scotland.

Scotland would be out in the cold, with no currency, would need to apply to join the EU, Spain could scupper this for you. Your precious SNP is currently got a crisis of it's own that could see Nicola "Looks as though she wears a dress size too small" Sturgeon booted, for potentially lying re: Multiple Turkey necker, Alex Salmond.

I don't see any hypocrisy here.

Again you are trotting out the same old, tired unionist lines. No currency, Spain would veto, all of these were part of Project Fear 2014 yet still independence climbs in polls.

Despite "all these benefits" you haven't yet named one in this thread. Not a single benefit of being in the UK.

It's not "my precious SNP" - I'm simply offering observations on Scottish politics. I've said before the serial incompetence of the unionist parties results in weak opposition and is bad for political discourse. I know on CF not many view opposing views as healthy but there was a time that was quite normal in politics.

As Labour lurch to a new leader - so many since the SNP took power I'd struggle to name them all. The Conservatives also have a new leader in Scotland I can't see either making inroads in May despite any scandal that could engulf the SNP.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Agreed, once in a generation wasn't it....

By the time they get round to it it will have been at least 10 years since the last vote. It could be argued that is a different generation; 10 years worth of voters that didn't get the chance last time.

Brexit will lead to the end of the UK sadly.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes and we all know why it took 4.5 years don't we?

The Conservatives wouldn't back May's deal?

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Mr K

By the time they get round to it it will have been at least 10 years since the last vote. It could be argued that is a different generation; 10 years worth of voters that didn't get the chance last time.

Brexit will lead to the end of the UK sadly.

The SNP wanted independence before Brexit existed.

Originally Posted by jfman

Has the court of session ruled on that yet or is this another example of opinion presented as fact?

One man's uncomfortable truths are another man's seperatist hyperbole.

I've said before unionists struggle to make a compelling case for the union to people who are likely to vote independence and I think this is another glaring example.

Before you get too relaxed with all this nonsense ...

The wise heads in the SNP haven’t actually changed their minds about any of this. They were in no doubt they needed a Section 30 Order for 2014 and they still think that. What has changed is that a number of positions in the party’s NEC now occupied by hardliners. Sturgeon wants to keep her job so pragmatism has forced her to order the pompous Mike Russell to write up the “strategy” we are now debating. Except it isn’t a strategy, it’s a plan B that only exists because Sturgeon can no longer afford to look like the nationalist leader who doesn’t want a referendum.

What’s worse is that thanks to Nippy being rather more to Scottish tastes than Boris when it comes to media management in a crisis, the SNP looks like it might actually have a working majority again this year, if not by itself then with the continuing assistance of those useful idiots who like to call themselves the Scottish Green Party; furthermore, Boris has gone further than any UK politician to date in spelling out that he means to stick by “once in a generation”, and has defined “generation” in truly Biblical terms (40 years). Sturgeon has little wriggle room left and her strategy of asking the true believers to wait until the right time is getting harder to sustain.

So really, those in the SNP who think winning a referendum is more important than simply holding one are beginning to lose the argument that it is better to wait until the polling is consistently high enough, consistently long enough, for victory to be more or less certain. The party ultras, who properly drank the kool-aid in 2014 and genuinely think Scotland is on the brink of being thoroughly wrecked by Toreeez, having its NHS sold off, Trident missiles farting plutonium all over the central belt and whatever, are starting to get the upper hand.

It’s also worth pointing out that the SNP, in proposing the UK government can do only one of three things in the face of its proposed Referendum Bill, has actually failed to list the fourth option: the one thing the UK government is most likely to do, and which the SNP desperately hopes it won’t do, which is to accept the Scottish Parliament is perfectly entitled to poll the Scottish electorate for its opinion on any issue it likes, but that this doesn’t afford the outcome the same status as the 2014 referendum which was enabled by Act of Parliament and underpinned by a document signed by the PM, FM and their deputies.

HMG may deny a section 30 order, choose not to challenge any subsequent referendum act in the courts, decline to engage with the ensuing campaign (except perhaps for taking the opportunity to point out to the electorate that this is a glorified exercise in opinion polling which they are not obliged to participate in) and then refuse to discuss the outcome with Scottish Ministers.

What then?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

The SNP wanted independence before Brexit existed.

Brexit has furthered their cause, and now also made it an issue in NI. Even Wales are now starting to ask the question.