Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[MalteseFalcon]

No. RBS should stay in Scotland, ditto Scottish Life and any other Scottish companies thinking of moving out of Scotland. They should pay their tax to Scotland.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Damien

Negative argument = scaremongering Positive argument - jingoism

It's hard to reconcile a "positive argument" with the ordinary definition of jingoism. "Jingoism is patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.[1] Jingoism also refers to a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force, as against peaceful relations, either economic or political, with other countries, in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others—an extreme type of nationalism." ---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Project Fear is turning into Project reality. Salmond can dismiss this as scaremongering all he likes, he did so again today, but it's happening. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/509812954892869632 ---------- Post added at 22:46 ---------- Previous post was at 22:30 ---------- and another...https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/509818477587468288

Moving their headquarters might not necessarily involve a physical move. As I understand it (and I may well be wrong) in the event of a "Yes" vote they could move their HQ's for the purposes of legal entity recognition to England (or Wales / Northern Ireland for that matter) by registering under the Overseas Companies Regulations 2009.

EDIT.

The Lloyds banking Group contact page makes for interesting reading. It already has HQ addresses in London & Halifax.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Damien

Project Fear is turning into Project reality. Salmond can dismiss this as scaremongering all he likes, he did so again today, but it's happening.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/509812954892869632



---------- Post added at 22:46 ---------- Previous post was at 22:30 ----------

and another...https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/509818477587468288

For me it's always been a reality. I work in the legal team for one of those banks based in Edinburgh. Whilst nothing has been confirmed officially to us, there has been a sense in our office that changes are afoot. For the last 12 months no new staff have been hired. As people have left the company the staff who remain have taken on more responsibilities. Where we can't cope work has been moved to other offices down south, or sold to other companies. All cases that have been moved or sold are for English, Welsh and Irish customers. We've long suspected everything has been on hold until the outcome of the referendum. If Scotland votes YES, we will still have a presence in Scotland / Edinburgh but we certainly won't have the same level of work or requirement for staff. It's almost a certainty redundancies will follow. Interestingly our CEO is visiting us on Wednesday the 17th for a meeting. No agenda has been set.

[Qtx]

Hope this doesn't scare cast iron Dave away from giving whats left of the UK an in/out referendum on the EU. Assuming he would give us one anyway, which is doubtful. The reality that people will vote other than what he want's should wipe that smug look off his face but pretty sure he is too far detached from reality though.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It's hard to reconcile a "positive argument" with the ordinary definition of jingoism. "Jingoism is patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.[1] Jingoism also refers to a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force, as against peaceful relations, either economic or political, with other countries, in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others—an extreme type of nationalism." ---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ---------- Moving their headquarters might not necessarily involve a physical move. As I understand it (and I may well be wrong) in the event of a "Yes" vote they could move their HQ's for the purposes of legal entity recognition to England (or Wales / Northern Ireland for that matter) by registering under the Overseas Companies Regulations 2009.

EDIT.

The Lloyds banking Group contact page makes for interesting reading. It already has HQ addresses in London & Halifax.

That definition of Jingoism could equally apply to the YES camp, IMHO.

---------- Post added at 08:53 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Qtx

Hope this doesn't scare cast iron Dave away from giving whats left of the UK an in/out referendum on the EU. Assuming he would give us one anyway, which is doubtful. The reality that people will vote other than what he want's should wipe that smug look off his face but pretty sure he is too far detached from reality though.

You shouldn't try and mask your feelings - tell us what you really think....

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

The Lloyds banking Group contact page makes for interesting reading. It already has HQ addresses in London & Halifax.

Not suprising as Lloyds was bought/merged, whatever, with the HBOS group. Halifax Bank of Scotland.

The headlines don't look great for the Yessers this morning. Today's papers are carrying the news that BP and Shell both agree with the assessment that the oil will be pretty much gone within 35 years, and that Standard Life and RBS have plans in place to relocate to England in the event of a Yes.

Oh, and that most aptly named newspaper, The Scotsman, has published a front page editorial tearing the case for independence to shreds and coming out firmly for NO.

Apparently Salmond also got his generously proportioned erse handed to him on a plate in an online debate with Darling at Mumsnet.com as well ...

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

The Lloyds banking Group contact page makes for interesting reading. It already has HQ addresses in London & Halifax.

LBG's main consumer banking brands are Lloyds, Halifax and Bank of Scotland, so naturally they have existing HQ addresses in London, Halifax and Edinburgh. The prospect of the Edinburgh operation losing its status or disappearing altogether would be seismic. It was bad enough when they merged with Halifax, after which there was a lot of huffing and puffing over which location had become the 'true' head office of the combined group.

[Mr Angry]

I see the BBC are reporting that RBS have confirmed the "relocation" is as I suspected and will not cost jobs according to a letter issued by their CEO. ---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

That definition of Jingoism could equally apply to the YES camp, IMHO.

Agreed. ---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

LBG's main consumer banking brands are Lloyds, Halifax and Bank of Scotland, so naturally they have existing HQ addresses in London, Halifax and Edinburgh. The prospect of the Edinburgh operation losing its status or disappearing altogether would be seismic. It was bad enough when they merged with Halifax, after which there was a lot of huffing and puffing over which location had become the 'true' head office of the combined group.

Again, I suspect any "move" will be in keeping with those clarified by RBS.

I see from that report that Lloyds have also clarified their position "Lloyds Banking Group said it could also shift its legal home to its headquarters, which is already in London. However, Lloyds said this was just a legal procedure and "there would be no immediate changes or issues"."

Symbolism is of great importance in issues pertaining to nationalism and identity, Mr A. Living where you do, you of all CF members are surely aware of that. Even if not one penny moves south, major "Scottish" banking brands no longer being legally Scottish, means something to some people.

Salmond has dismissed the banks moving out as, yup, scaremongering.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Chris

Symbolism is of great importance in issues pertaining to nationalism and identity, Mr A. Living where you do, you of all CF members are surely aware of that. Even if not one penny moves south, major "Scottish" banking brands no longer being legally Scottish, means something to some people.

I agree totally Chris, you're on the money (no pun intended) but I am looking at the facts, not the emotions. As you say, living where I do, I'm acutely aware of symbolism, but that's all it is to me.

Originally Posted by Chris

Symbolism is of great importance in issues pertaining to nationalism and identity, Mr A. Living where you do, you of all CF members are surely aware of that. Even if not one penny moves south, major "Scottish" banking brands no longer being legally Scottish, means something to some people.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I agree totally Chris, you're on the money (no pun intended) but I am are looking at the facts, not the emotions. As you say, living where I do, I'm acutely aware of symbolism, but that's all it is to me.

It is not just symbolic.

They want the registration in England because they would want their customers, or more accurate the majority of their customers would want, to be regulated by the British regulator. It's not just the address changing, it's also where all those accounts, savings, investments and mortgages are registered. So it's also where the majority of the corporate activity is occurring. It's where the tax would be paid.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Damien

It is not just symbolic. They want the registration in England because they would want their customers, or more accurate the majority of their customers would want, to be regulated by the British regulator. It's not just the address changing, it's also where all those accounts, savings, investments and mortgages are registered. So it's also where the majority of the corporate activity is occurring. It's where the tax would be paid.

They are contemplating the creation of a legal entity, that is all, nothing has to move. It is a matter of Company law, not nationalism or symbolism.

[heero_yuy]

Alex Salmond has demanded the Government investigates a "Treasury leak" of RBS plans to move its HQ to London in the event of independence.

The Scottish First Minister said that divulging market sensitive information to the press ahead of an official announcement was "as serious a matter as you can possibly get".

Linky

So not bullying now but a conspiracy.

[Osem]

Salmond's doing a great job of emulating Putin's hyprocrisy right now.