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Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
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Old 25-07-2017, 01:02   #451
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
I have suggested it in the past hand the assessment process over to the NHS in fact I've said it more then once over the last few years as the doctors that deal with people. Anyone claiming disability benefits longterm has at least one consultant who are far better placed to give an accurate assessment then someone who attends company courses some of which last a whole 12 weeks to become an assessor. Consultants these days do not keep people on their lists if they don't believe there is an issue and have the distance from patients to render an objective assessment.

Yes the DWP does have an agenda and that agenda is to lower the numbers claiming benefits regardless of whether those people are genuinely entitled to them or have conditions that more then eligible. The private company's conducting the assessments take their lead from the DWP and act accordingly this was shown by the documentary that was made when ATOS was the main one doing the assessments and the trainers told the class that the DWP expected a set failure rate.

I dont have an issue with the assessor's how could i they probably were out of work before getting their job and as someone who wishes i could work i understand taking anything rather then nothing but that doesn't excuse the DWP or the company's themselves. If you want proif look at the tribunals it's a ridiculously high level of judgements for the claimants and still the DWP doesn't improve the assessment. They would rather change the tribunal process and prevent their bad decisions being overturned and that's what they are doing now removing advocates and other resources the claimant had to help them.
Perhaps it is felt that consultants are not best placed to make objective assessment given that the decision comes with the inevitable baggage of disappointment in some cases? Perhaps the consultants just don't have time and that this is a burden they can do without? Perhaps consultants themselves don't want the responsibility?

The DWP evidently feel that its assessors are appropriately prepared to discern between genuine claimants and fakes and to be fair 3 months of intensive training backed up with a decision process doesn't seem unreasonable. Perhaps gaining on the job work experience after initial training is perceived as prejudicial but the 'protection' afforded by Tribunals seems to be covering that?

I don't know the reasoning behind the system but I know there has to be one. It is investigative by nature which seems to raise the heckles. Maybe when a full database has been created, qualification won't be so onerous. From what I've read here no genuine claimants have missed out and the system should safeguard the future for those who will continue to qualify and that's a positive isn't it?

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Out of curiousity are you in the system Kursk?.
No. But I know lots of mums and dads, sons and daughters who work hard in public service and get nothing but moan after moan about how rubbish they are. They're not on BBC wages you know yet they manage to deliver service we should appreciate, not berate.
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Old 25-07-2017, 02:25   #452
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I have friends and relatives working in the public sector including one working for the DWP and they are the most critical and cynical of the DWP hence them starting a new job in a couple of months. Good people can sometimes work for bad company's it's always been that way and no consultants these days care about facts they have very little emotional attachment to individual patients so they are far better placed to give accurate assessments of a persons illness and effects of that illness.

So you'd be happy to have an assessment from someone who until they took the company's assessment course might have been a cleaner and honestly believe they will have a better handle on a person's medical conditions then a consultant. Why they don't use the NHS is quite simple they can't fire the NHS they can't put the pressure on an NHS consultant to give them their preferred decision as they can with the private company's that have contracts from the DWP. Regardless of the people working within the system doesn't change the fact it's a lousy system that fails in every regard except one in that it temporarily reduces benefit claimant numbers.

We pay these private company's a lot of money to do assessments that they routinely get wrong that then costs more money when it goes to tribunal who overwhelmingly find the assessment system to be flawed and ineffective and have stated as much numerous times and nothing is done to change it. Oh and if your a good actor and know the system well as all die hard benefit fraudsters do this current assessment system is your best friend because it's easy to pull the wool over the eye's of the inexperienced and knowledge lacking assessor.

Money is being thrown down the drain with the current system with very little value being gotten for the sums paid and we have the NHS with funding issue's so cancel the private company's contracts and give the money to the NHS instead. They are better equipped and qualified to know a problem exists and if it affects a person to the point of not being able to work it's a perfect solution except for the fact the DWP would lose any control over the assessments which it clearly isn't willing to do. Ask yourself why the NHS that treats the ill in this country but plays no part in the assessment process to determine illness and extent of that illness is in anyway logical.
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Old 25-07-2017, 12:37   #453
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Ask yourself why the NHS that treats the ill in this country but plays no part in the assessment process to determine illness and extent of that illness is in anyway logical.
I agree 100% with your comments. Taking the assessments out of the hands of experts in the fields required and giving them (and a lot of public money) to unqualified private staff is totally illogical. But it serves the DWP's agenda.
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Old 25-07-2017, 12:48   #454
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Taf View Post
I agree 100% with your comments. Taking the assessments out of the hands of experts in the fields required and giving them (and a lot of public money) to unqualified private staff is totally illogical. But it serves the DWP's agenda.
the agenda of cutting out fraud ? weeding out the lead swingers is that so terrible .
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:02   #455
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
the agenda of cutting out fraud ? weeding out the lead swingers is that so terrible .
No as has been pointed out to you and others before by some on here and here's one here for you just to help you along.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...on-court-told/


But just remember the DWP's own figures tell you that fraud within the benefit budget is very small in comparison to other frauds being committed in this country but alas nothing much gets mentioned or done about that sadly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...nary-estimates
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:11   #456
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
No as has been pointed out to you and others before by some on here and here's one here for you just to help you along.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...on-court-told/


But just remember the DWP's own figures tell you that fraud within the benefit budget is very small in comparison to other frauds being committed in this country but alas nothing much gets mentioned or done about that sadly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...nary-estimates
your very small is in the £billions sadly and sadly is still fraud ,if people put as much effort into stopping it as they do defending it there would be very little to no theft of funds .
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:17   #457
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
your very small is in the £billions sadly and sadly is still fraud ,if people put as much effort into stopping it as they do defending it there would be very little to no theft of funds .
l have never defended benefit fraud full stop but l will defend the relentless demonising and stereotyping of the vast majority of benefit claimants who are not scroungers or lazy *******s or whatever else one wants to call them..
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:25   #458
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
l have never defended benefit fraud full stop but l will defend the relentless demonising and stereotyping of the vast majority of benefit claimants who are not scroungers or lazy *******s or whatever else one wants to call them..
no one has demonised the genuine claimants just the fraudsters who infiltrate the system and suck it dry with their fake illnesses while holding down a paying job or just choosing it as a lifestyle because it's better than work ,these people use up this valuable resource that the genuinely sick need to survive .
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:14   #459
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

It seems that a perfect system that serves genuine claimants, the Government and the taxpayer is unattainable. As such, it seems to me that the system (with inherent emotional detachment) that's in place is as workable as any alternative.

It's the cheats who should be blamed if the system is felt to be too invasive or onerous, not the DWP.
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:33   #460
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I got my letter this morning
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:35   #461
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I'm certain you will be fine dilli although I know it is still a worry.
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:36   #462
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw View Post
I got my letter this morning
for an assessment or a judgement ??
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:45   #463
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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for an assessment or a judgement ??
I assume I'll get an assessment after they get this paperwork back. Natalie is reading through it now as they didn't send it in a suitable format for me to look at.
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:56   #464
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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I got my letter this morning
The "invitation" to claim PIP?
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:57   #465
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Yup
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