Britain outside the EU

But everybody knows Adolf and Eva were perfect dinner guests, as long as you kept the conversation off religion and politics ...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nice to see the Telegraph being selective in their history...



Forgetting to mention the other aspects, like deporting the Jewish people in Jersey to the death camps, deporting other Islanders en masse to Germany, where many died in labour camps, sending Jersey Resistance members to concentration camps, built fortifications using forced labour, which killed thousands of imported slave labourers, amongst many other horrific actions.

But at least they kept the lights on...

(my brother has lived in Jersey for nearly 30 years, having moved there in the 90s - the locals do not remember the Occupation fondly, so this headline is going down like a turd in a trifle)

Well, yes. Why should the Torygraph mention something that isn't the case? You're being silly, imo.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Well, yes. Why should the Torygraph mention something that isn't the case? You're being silly, imo.

Are you saying the Nazis didn't do the things I referred to?

The Telegraph is comparing the current farrago with the Nazi occupation, and highlighting part of the Nazi occupation as a positive against what is currently happening - "tone deaf" doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Carth]

I quite fancy Fish & Ships for lunch . . . with scraps

[jonbxx]

So when jersey insists on treaty arrangements being adhered to and not trying to 'to understand and help ease the problems', it's send in the gunboats time. Jersey is not being very friendly towards France here it seems

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Are you saying the Nazis didn't do the things I referred to?

The Telegraph is comparing the current farrago with the Nazi occupation, and highlighting part of the Nazi occupation as a positive against what is currently happening - "tone deaf" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Now you're being even sillier. The Torygraph's report is exactly correct and you're making mischief out of it. There's no way anyone other than a fool/troublemaker would interpret the report as portraying the Nazis in a positive light; it is a factual observation and portrays the French minister in a very poor light.

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

So when jersey insists on treaty arrangements being adhered to and not trying to 'to understand and help ease the problems', it's send in the gunboats time. Jersey is not being very friendly towards France here it seems

Jon, the gunboats was a Boris type decision - and quite right too because the militant French have form.

Why does Jersey have to be very friendly to France when they (fishermen) want to pillage the fishing grounds and not adhere to the licences that they have been granted?

And threatening to cut electricity (a commercial contract) is a friendly act by France?

And why hasn't France (or Jersey) invoked the formal treaty dispute mechanism?

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by Chris

But everybody knows Adolf and Eva were perfect dinner guests, as long as you kept the conversation off religion and politics ...

Smeg head

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Now you're being even sillier. The Torygraph's report is exactly correct and you're making mischief out of it. There's no way anyone other than a fool/troublemaker would interpret the report as portraying the Nazis in a positive light; it is a factual observation and portrays the French minister in a very poor light.

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------



Jon, the gunboats was a Boris type decision - and quite right too because the militant French have form.

Why does Jersey have to be very friendly to France when they (fishermen) want to pillage the fishing grounds and not adhere to the licences that they have been granted?

And threatening to cut electricity (a commercial contract) is a friendly act by France?

And why hasn't France (or Jersey) invoked the formal treaty dispute mechanism?

Except it isn't...

https://www.theislandwiki.org/index...._and_Rationing

Foodstuffs which had previously been scarce were now non-existent, and the Channel Islands were effectively in [Post D-Day state of siege|a state of siege]], with the Allies making no attempt to recapture them and the Germans having no intention of surrendering. The populations of the islands were squeezed in the middle, heading to starvation, and the German troops were, if anything, even more badly affected.

One by one, foodstuffs and essential commodities ran out, with no hope of replenishment until the end of the war. Gas supply ceased on 4 September and some 50 public ovens were opened by the States in various parts of St Helier. From October 1 the electricity supply became uncertain and the current was shut off each evening.

https://the-history-girls.blogspot.c...in-ww2-by.html

By Christmas 1944, electricity was no longer available. Candles became scarce, and winter evenings were spent in semi-darkness by the light of a tin can full of oil, with a bootlace for a wick. Lack of warmth and gnawing hunger made winter on Jersey a true misery.

You state

There's no way anyone other than a fool/troublemaker would interpret the report as portraying the Nazis in a positive light

They are comparing the Nazis positively against the French - the Nazis also made the trains run on time, but we don't use them as a comparison when LNER/GW/Arriva trains are late, because it was where they made the trains run on time to was the major issue...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

You sound more and more like Lord Haw-Haw, Andrew.

As we've seen today, it's not me who is falsely claiming the Nazis kept the electricity on in Jersey. That's the Brexit-supporting Daily Telegraph.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

E<SNIP>
You state

They are comparing the Nazis positively against the French - the Nazis also made the trains run on time, but we don't use them as a comparison when LNER/GW/Arriva trains are late, because it was where they made the trains run on time to was the major issue...

.... and there was Vichy France. You should lay off the Nazi thing.

The important takeaway is that the French threat to cut off power is a state-issued hostile act.

[Carth]

Never mind what the bloody papers say (either pro or anti Brexit), when are we gonna grow a pair and sink a few boats

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

.... and there was Vichy France. You should lay off the Nazi thing.

The important takeaway is that the French threat to cut off power is a state-issued hostile act.

You may wish to relay that to the Government "source" who said it, and the Telegraph which gave it such prominence…

Anyhoo, back in the Land of Not Comparing Things to Nazis, the Times gives a non-emotional view on this idiocy…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...rsey-dst59fl9j

The political stakes are high for President Macron and Boris Johnson.

What are the political implications in Britain?
The prime minister wants to show British voters, who are going to the polls today, that he is standing up for Britain’s sovereignty over its coastal waters and rights to decide on fishing licences.

This issue is particularly acute in Scotland and Hartlepool because of anger that Johnson did not look after the fishing industry when negotiating a post-Brexit fisheries deal with the EU late last year.

By standing up to France and the EU, he hopes to show voters from Scotland and Hartlepool that the government is defending Britain’s fishing industry by using the UK’s clout on the international stage.

What is going on in France?
The French president is trailing in the opinion polls behind Marine Le Pen, the far-right leader, ahead of closely contested elections in a year’s time.

Macron must show French voters, who value France’s fishing communities as symbolic of the country’s spirit, that he can defend a key national interest against Brexit Britain.

Other European leaders are also keenly aware that Le Pen, a Eurosceptic populist, will capitalise on the disputes to attack the EU because French boats are being disadvantaged under rules Brussels negotiated with the UK.

Can France unilaterally cut off electricity supplies?
No. Any such move would be illegal under the terms of various energy treaties and the EU-UK trade and cooperation agreement, which has a formal dispute settlement procedure.

While independent dispute arbitration takes place, the EU — rather than France individually — can take unilateral economic measures, including tariffs. The agreement states that the EU can take “compensatory measures commensurate to the economic and societal impact of the change in the level and conditions of access to waters”. But it adds: “Such impact shall be measured on the basis of reliable evidence and not merely on conjecture and remote possibility.”

In 2026, when EU-UK energy trading agreements come up for renewal at the same time as a renegotiation on fishing rights, France will use the threat of cutting power or increasing the cost of electricity supplies as a bargaining chip.

Can Jersey fulfil its own energy requirements?
Jersey Electricity, which supplies customers on the island, certainly thinks so. Today it assured customers that if electricity supplies from France were disrupted, its own power stations had the “capacity to supply Jersey’s electricity requirements”.

[Sephiroth]

@Hugh

A sensible analysis.

Originally Posted by Carth

Never mind what the bloody papers say (either pro or anti Brexit), when are we gonna grow a pair and sink a few boats

As ex-Military, it always concerns me when people who haven’t been in "the line of fire" seem keen for others (not themselves) to be placed in harm’s way…

[Sephiroth]

What should really be of concern is that our military is called into action only on a valid basis.

Politics apart, I feel that stationing two armed vessels on a "watching brief" at St Helier bay, presumably also to prevent an illegal blockade, is perfectly reasonable.

Hugh, in his irritating mission to target the writer in this thread rather than the issue at hand should take note.