Updated: Boris resigns as party leader
02-07-2022, 18:41
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#2926
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
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02-07-2022, 19:37
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#2927
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Rise above the players
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Covid hasn't been happening for 12 years. National debt has increased EVERY year since 2010.
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/u..._debt_analysis
Compared to other G7 countries we're doing worse.
https://www.ft.com/content/4ac7e454-...f-fb54404d45a0
We've a higher inflation rate than any EU country.
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/u...france-3571914
The Govt had an pandemic exercise a few years ago so we would be prepared. They chose to ignore the recommendations.
The NHS has a staffing crisis and has been underfunded for over a decade. Staff turnover is horrendous.
Are you one of these people who feel the Govt can never be held responsible for anything ? If they aren't responsible for anything whats the point of them ?
Quite frankly it's hard to see how Labour could do any worse. (and I've never voted for them). |
Oh, do come off it, Mr K, do you take us for fools? Or maybe you just don’t understand the detail behind the facts.
Yes, of course our debt was still increasing post 2010. Why? Because our expenditure far exceeded our income, and so every year we had to correct that imbalance so that the debt would stop increasing year on year. We finally brought the imbalance in the economy so that the growing debt could finally be controlled, but then the pandemic changed everything. You are looking at results without considering what caused them.
When we look at the mess the Labour government left us in 2010, I don’t blame them for the financial crash, because it was not our government’s fault. What I blame them for is their spendthrift attitude which left us devoid of balances. Cause and effect.
As far as the pandemic exercise is concerned, did you seriously expect our scarce resources during austerity to be squandered on setting even more money aside at that stage for something that might not have happened for decades? Even Mr Hindsight wouldn’t have foreseen this pandemic coming so soon, even in retrospect!
As I said in an earlier post, the NHS was in crisis when Labour were in power. Unfortunately, the pandemic has made things so much worse.
Boris Johnson’s government may not be perfect, and there are clearly behavioural problems that need sorting out, but this government has got the big decisions right.
How did Kier Starmer do when you review what he was urging this government to do? For example, just how long would our lockdown have lasted? He would have been too petrified to lift the restrictions, and we’d probably still have them in place now if it was down to him.
---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
However his tacit implication that 85% debt to GDP is managable but 100% out of control is plucked from thin air. There was no plan to pay the 85% off, merely to pass it onto future generations.
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That’s what inflation is for, jfman!
My point has nothing to do with your 100% / 85% comparison. It is about re-balancing the economy. The disparity between our expenditure and income levels had to be equalised in order to pay off the debt.
That’s why the government referred to the problem as the deficit.
But of course as the revered economist on this forum, you knew that. 
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Last edited by OLD BOY; 02-07-2022 at 19:41.
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02-07-2022, 20:11
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#2928
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,319
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
That’s what inflation is for, jfman!
My point has nothing to do with your 100% / 85% comparison. It is about re-balancing the economy. The disparity between our expenditure and income levels had to be equalised in order to pay off the debt.
That’s why the government referred to the problem as the deficit.
But of course as the revered economist on this forum, you knew that. |
I know it's absolute rubbish, OB.
Pray, tell where does the deficit go and when do we ever pay off even the manageable 86% of the national debt?
Last edited by jfman; 02-07-2022 at 20:15.
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02-07-2022, 23:02
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#2929
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Cable Forum Team
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Quite frankly it's hard to see how Labour could do any worse. (and I've never voted for them).
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Oh I don’t know, lying about WMD taking us in to an illegitimate war in the Middle East, causing many unnecessary deaths and bloodshed.
The time they were in power prior to that, winter of discontent, refuse and dead bodies piling up on street, because unions were crippling the country with strikes.
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03-07-2022, 00:52
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#2930
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Rise above the players
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
I know it's absolute rubbish, OB.
Pray, tell where does the deficit go and when do we ever pay off even the manageable 86% of the national debt?
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The deficit has been reduced to manageable proportions.
As for the debt, you were the one explaining how Corbyn's expenditure proposals could be managed not that long ago!
I won't quote you exactly, to avoid embarrassment!
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03-07-2022, 02:16
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#2931
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
The deficit has been reduced to manageable proportions.
As for the debt, you were the one explaining how Corbyn's expenditure proposals could be managed not that long ago!
I won't quote you exactly, to avoid embarrassment!
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Oh be my guest, I stand by my previous posts rather than cower away from them like you, OB. If you want to back my statements on macroeconomic policy, you are most welcome!
So is the post-Covid deficit now manageable as implied in your post? If so, I'd be grateful if you could explain what has changed in the last six hours.
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03-07-2022, 09:54
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#2932
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laeva recumbens anguis
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
The deficit has been reduced to manageable proportions.
As for the debt, you were the one explaining how Corbyn's expenditure proposals could be managed not that long ago!
I won't quote you exactly, to avoid embarrassment!
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Seriously?
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03-07-2022, 11:11
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#2933
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Seriously?
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Sorry, I should have said 'had been reduced'. Obviously, the pandemic and Brexit have conspired to put the deficit up again. But that would have happened whichever government was in control at the time.
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03-07-2022, 11:46
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#2934
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Sorry, I should have said 'had been reduced'. Obviously, the pandemic and Brexit have conspired to put the deficit up again. But that would have happened whichever government was in control at the time.
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Pretty sure if another Party had been in power, Brexit wouldn’t have contributed to the deficit… 
Good of you to point out that Brexit contributed to the rise in the deficit, though…
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03-07-2022, 12:08
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#2935
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
student who filmed Beergate video has told Durham Police they will testify in court and claims event was 'entirely social'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ify-court.html
Pressure is mounting on Sir Keir Starmer over Beergate as Durham police have asked a witness if they are prepared to give evidence in court.
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03-07-2022, 12:24
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#2936
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
student who filmed Beergate video has told Durham Police they will testify in court and claims event was 'entirely social'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ify-court.html
Pressure is mounting on Sir Keir Starmer over Beergate as Durham police have asked a witness if they are prepared to give evidence in court.
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Wonder if he'll be as reputable as the bunch his father works for?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-sink-starmer
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03-07-2022, 12:33
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#2937
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth
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He'll be under oath that is usually sufficient in our court system.
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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03-07-2022, 12:52
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#2938
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
From the former Sun editor turned PR consultant.
Quote:
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David Yelland About turn! Make no mistake, Paul Dacre has lost the internal argument with Jonathan Rothermere… the Mail titles have today suddenly turned on Johnson. Tory MPs, especially the new and naive ones, may not realise what this means…. It means he is finished….
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https://twitter.com/davidyelland/sta...21054559293441
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03-07-2022, 13:04
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#2939
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,118
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
student who filmed Beergate video has told Durham Police they will testify in court and claims event was 'entirely social'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ify-court.html
Pressure is mounting on Sir Keir Starmer over Beergate as Durham police have asked a witness if they are prepared to give evidence in court.
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Which, by legal definition & on what appears on the surface, a confirmation that Durham Police are intending to fine Starmer (& Rayner).
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03-07-2022, 13:18
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#2940
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
student who filmed Beergate video has told Durham Police they will testify in court and claims event was 'entirely social'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ify-court.html
Pressure is mounting on Sir Keir Starmer over Beergate as Durham police have asked a witness if they are prepared to give evidence in court.
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Is it unusual to ask witnesses if they would be prepared to testify in a court of law? Not been in that position myself but seems a sensible procedure to have.
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