This NI increase for Social/Health Care

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I doubt that, papa. Boris is the first PM who has promised to do something about the system and he did it.

He promised not to put up specified taxes at the election, it's true, but that's before the pandemic struck. The money has to come from somewhere.

He kept his promise by breaking another, they don't cancel each other out, there is no spin you can put on this and like it has plenty of times in the past I hope his dishonesty costs him his job, it's not like he's any good at it anyway

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

"There's a hole in my bucket, dear Boris, dear Boris".

You want to be cared for at home but you have to sell your home to pay for the care. So you go into a care home, blow all the money, then what? You've funded the profit of the care home, left no home for your children. The whole thing's a farce and nothing is really fixed.

Yeah but at least he's done something about it...

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yup - mum's fees are just over £1k per week.

Outrageous

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

He kept his promise by breaking another, they don't cancel each other out, there is no spin you can put on this and like it has plenty of times in the past I hope his dishonesty costs him his job, it's not like he's any good at it anyway



Yeah but at least he's done something about it...

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------



Outrageous

I don't think he's done anything that unbreaks the care system.

They may be outrageous, but there is a waiting list, as it is like a 4 star hotel, with enough staff (who get paid a reasonable, not minimum, wage, and who also get sick pay*), the food is very good, and she's cared for well.

They also had plenty of PPE at outbreak time, as they had it in preparation in case of a flu outbreak.

*One of the reasons there were so many COVID cases in care homes was that quite a few pay minimum wage with no sick pay, so if they didn't come in, they didn't get paid.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

He kept his promise by breaking another, they don't cancel each other out, there is no spin you can put on this and like it has plenty of times in the past I hope his dishonesty costs him his job, it's not like he's any good at it anyway



Yeah but at least he's done something about it...

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------



Outrageous

He’s broken a manifesto commitment, that’s unarguable. But dishonest? How, exactly? Are you suggesting he knew before the election this would be necessary, or that he is about to do something other than what he has announced today?

[Sephiroth]

He's not an honest person, Chris. His thinking behind this smacks of trying to gain public approval by claiming he's met a manifesto commitment (he hasn't fixed it at all).

His job is to oversee sustained economic growth so that the Covid debt can be paid off over 50+ years.

Leaving the EU saves us current account money of c. £16 billion per annum. What's that going to be used for? It's dishonest not to mention it (at best economical with the truth).

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

He’s broken a manifesto commitment, that’s unarguable. But dishonest? How, exactly? Are you suggesting he knew before the election this would be necessary, or that he is about to do something other than what he has announced today?

He's broken 2 manifesto pledges today and used covid as an excuse'

just watching a briefing from no 10 i swear it's tony bliar in a blond wig

Again, though: in what way has he been dishonest, as claimed by TheDaddy? Yes, he’s broken his promises. Did he know before the election that he was going to do so?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

He’s broken a manifesto commitment, that’s unarguable. But dishonest? How, exactly? Are you suggesting he knew before the election this would be necessary, or that he is about to do something other than what he has announced today?

Refresh my memory on how he planned to do it before the election please? I remember him saying he had a plan and I remember the criticism he got for being vague but that's about it, oh yes and I remember Michael Howard and The Times sacking him for being dishonest, do leopards change spots often

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Chris

Again, though: in what way has he been dishonest, as claimed by TheDaddy? Yes, he’s broken his promises. Did he know before the election that he was going to do so?

are you asking about boris the liar or rishi the pension thief.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Refresh my memory on how he planned to do it before the election please? I remember him saying he had a plan and I remember the criticism he got for being vague but that's about it, oh yes and I remember Michael Howard and The Times sacking him for being dishonest, do leopards change spots often

I can confirm your memory. He's dishonest.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Again, though: in what way has he been dishonest, as claimed by TheDaddy? Yes, he’s broken his promises. Did he know before the election that he was going to do so?

I think the point is that everyone knows that health & social care has been in need of reform for years. In fact Boris stated himself that previous governments hadn't done it.

I think some people are of the opinion he's using Covid as an excuse to do this Believing the public will be more accepting.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I think the point is that everyone knows that health & social care has been in need of reform for years. In fact Boris stated himself that previous governments hadn't done it.

I think some people are of the opinion he's using Covid as an excuse to do this Believing the public will be more accepting.

As I said, it's/he's dishonest. All smoke and mirrors and conning the public.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

As I said, it's/he's dishonest. All smoke and mirrors and conning the public.

A cynic might think that and i can understand why (I'd agree) but to play devils advocate you could argue that Covid has lead to the government's focus being sharpened

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Good summary from the Beeb - one thing that is quite important is that this is about care costs, not accommodation (so if people are in Private Care Homes, not sure how this benefits them).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58473787

My personal view (and we are actually doing this at the moment for my mum-in-law) is that if the person is in a residential care home, and has assets to pay for this (and with no partner in the family home), the home should be sold to pay for the Residential Care Home fees.

The challenge will be in 5 years time when the money runs out...

You might want to read this Hugh.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ocial_Care.pdf

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I think the point is that everyone knows that health & social care has been in need of reform for years. In fact Boris stated himself that previous governments hadn't done it.

I think some people are of the opinion he's using Covid as an excuse to do this Believing the public will be more accepting.

Fair enough, if that's the argument ... I'm not here to apologise for Boris, I just think we're capable of a higher standard of political debate than calling people dishonest just because they're in the wrong party, or we didn't vote for them.

Nevertheless, the proposal that he always intended to break the manifesto pledge and only needed an excuse is very hard to prove. If there was a lesser excuse than covid, then maybe that would stand as evidence of dishonest dealing, but the truth is, covid has been a genuine emergency that has cost the country an absolute fortune. I suspect that paying it down will most likely yet involve measures that weren't in the manifesto.