Brexit discussion

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If Theresa just mentions the five general principals again that won't cut the mustard. There's only so far that the can may be kicked down the road!
We're now twenty months down the line and the Government needs to define how it will square the no hard Irish border situation with striking its own trade deals.

I'm surprised she hasn't asked for your advice.

Pretty good so far. Finally saying we can't pick and choose and will lose some things, saying we'll look to stay in some EU agencies (i.e chemicals) and a close partnership in terms of trade.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Pretty good so far. Finally saying we can't pick and choose and will lose some things, saying we'll look to stay in some EU agencies (i.e chemicals) and a close partnership in terms of trade.

Seems to be acknowledging the Brexit trade-off; the harder the Brexit, the less trade with the EU there will be. Should hopefully be a wake-up call to some Brexiters.
Still intrigued about Ireland Gibraltar solutions.

[jonbxx]

Great news in staying in medicines, chemicals and aviation agencies if this can go ahead.

The 'identical law' issue is intriguing - will the UK create the same laws as the EU? Not having a central judiciary body interpreting the laws will result in different case law.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Seems to be acknowledging the Brexit trade-off; the harder the Brexit, the less trade with the EU there will be. Should hopefully be a wake-up call to some Brexiters.
Still intrigued about Ireland Gibraltar solutions.

I’m sick of telling you, there is no hard or soft Brexit. So enough of the silly ‘wake up call’ bullshit.

I don’t need to ‘wake up’ for no one, because I was not dozing when I didn’t regret voting to leave. May said in the speech.. We are leaving the EU. Freedom of Movement ends. We are leaving the Customs Union and Single Market. Ticks all the boxes to me. But I say again, no such thing as a hard/soft Brexit. Leave won the democratic vote, not this half-in half out nonsense.

[jonbxx]

Would it help if we just called 'Brexit' 'Brexit' and avoid hard and soft Brexit? The question now is what our relationship is with the EU down the line, not whether Brexit should go ahead or not.

So what would constitute Brexit? There are a number of scenarios and I would be interested at what point Brexit is no longer Brexit;

1 - zero trade with EU
2 - trade with EU under WTO
3 - Limited but not free trade agreement
4 - Limited free trade agreement for goods and membership of some organisations (EMA, ECA and EASA as the PM said today)
5 - Free trade including services and membership of EU organisations needed
6 - Customs union
7 - Customs union and single market (EEA membership)

None of these options are staying in the EU. None of these options ignore the question posed on the ballot form. All of these options are leaving the EU.

Where do you stand?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I’m sick of telling you, there is no hard or soft Brexit. So enough of the silly ‘wake up call’ bullshit.

I don’t need to ‘wake up’ for no one, because I was not dozing when I didn’t regret voting to leave. May said in the speech.. We are leaving the EU. Freedom of Movement ends. We are leaving the Customs Union and Single Market. Ticks all the boxes to me. But I say again, no such thing as a hard/soft Brexit. Leave won the democratic vote, not this half-in half out nonsense.

I've not mentioned a hard or soft Brexit.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've not mentioned a hard or soft Brexit.

I think Brexiteers are well aware of the position, Andrew, and do not share your fatalistic views on the subject.

Less trade for us is also less trade for the EU, remember. Common sense will prevail.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've not mentioned a hard or soft Brexit.

Bullshit. You said ‘The harder the brexit’. That’s talking of a soft or hard brexit.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Bullshit. You said ‘The harder the brexit’. That’s talking of a soft or hard brexit.

Not enjoying Theresa's hard facts Mick ?

Brexit ain't good to bring 'all things bright and beautiful', she's preparing the British public for that, if only for her own political survival.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Not enjoying Theresa's hard facts Mick ?

Brexit ain't good to bring 'all things bright and beautiful', she's preparing the British public for that, if only for her own political survival.

Did you miss my post saying the things she outlined, ticked all the right boxes for me...?

I know you like to skip and read stuff that only suits your narrative and spit out your own incorrect versions of what was said, but seriously...

[Mr K]

As long as she's ticking your boxes, that's super. Meanwhile back in the real world ...

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Where do you stand?

To leave the European Union in it's entirety. We do not have to be tagged along with them, to do trade, paying rip off membership fees, one of the 10, who do while 18 others in the EU just tag along for a free ride..

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

As long as she's ticking your boxes, that's super. Meanwhile back in the real world ...

We will be back in the real world when we finally leave.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

To leave the European Union in it's entirety. We do not have to be tagged along with them, to do trade, paying rip off membership fees, one of the 10, who do while 18 others in the EU just tag along for a free ride.

Thanks for the reply. Based on my list;

1 - zero trade with EU
2 - trade with EU under WTO
3 - Limited but not free trade agreement
4 - Limited free trade agreement for goods and membership of some organisations (EMA, ECA and EASA as the PM said today)
5 - Free trade including services and membership of EU organisations needed
6 - Customs union
7 - Customs union and single market (EEA membership)

and the fact that the Prime Minsters speech ticked the right boxes for you, would position 4 or 5 match your vision of a post Brexit Britains relationship with Europe?

My reading of her speech seemed to suggest an aim for some limited or more free trade agreement and either membership or alignment with EU regulatory bodies such as the EMA, ECA, etc

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Where do you stand?

Originally Posted by Mick

To leave the European Union in its entirety.

Originally Posted by Mick

Did you miss my post saying the things she outlined, ticked all the right boxes for me...?

Which one do you actually mean Mick?

In her speech today, Theresa May said she would apply for associate membership of the EU agencies regulating chemicals, medicines and aerospace, agreeing to abide by their rules and paying towards them. She also said that European court rulings "would continue to affect us"

Call me old-fashioned but that ain't leaving "the European Union in its entirety."

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think Brexiteers are well aware of the position, Andrew, and do not share your fatalistic views on the subject.

Less trade for us is also less trade for the EU, remember. Common sense will prevail.

I'll leave it to this reader's comment on the FT who sums it up better than me.

CETA negotiator
Anyway you slice the "cake", May and her cabinet are effectively proposing to take the UK out of the Single Market and the Customs Union. Which means hard borders for goods, throwing Northern Ireland under the bus, and significantly less fluid access to EU services markets (notably no passporting in financial services). It also sends the EU-UK negotiations into a collision course with MFN provisions in the EU's existing trade deals (if you give X to the UK, you have to give it also to Canada, Japan, etc). It confirms the UK will fall out of the 60+ trade deals the EU has painfully negotiated over the past several decades. Hello, hard Brexit. I thought no one in the UK really wanted that? Besides maybe 63 xenophobic MPs with no grip on economics?

https://www.ft.com/content/547bf9a4-...a-43db76e69936
I note that one of your many wildly optimistic Brexit predictions has already come unstuck - there will be no passporting for financial services so banks in London will now be signing off on the relocation of some staff over the next few weeks.