Black Lives Matter

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by peanut

You're dictating on how you want to be treated. You don't want the label of black, white or whatever. you want to be treated differently to just about everyone else and you still want your views to mean something. It's like what is it 50 odd shades of gender now, but you're still either male or female. If you don't like it or if that is an issue then it is no one else problem other than your own.

I'm human, you're human. We are all human, we all bleed the same colour blood. If you want to separate people into groups, go ahead, but that's part of the problem, separating them.

[Pierre]

Separating people into groups of any kind is inevitable, to say otherwise is being simplistic and not grasping the issue.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Separating people into groups of any kind is inevitable, to say otherwise is being simplistic and not grasping the issue.

What issue? That people die everyday to horrible people? Stuff like this brings out the ugly in people. People rioting, people getting hurt in these protests. Protests while still on lockdown of a global pandemic which could make things worse and ironically result in more deaths.

In my opinion the issue is clearly an us verus them issue. And the sooner that is stopped, the quicker things get better. Stop labelling things, stop grouping people together and fight the bad in people as one group of humans. Then all of a sudden, black lives don't matter because all lives matter.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

What issue? That people die everyday to horrible people? Stuff like this brings out the ugly in people. People rioting, people getting hurt in these protests. Protests while still on lockdown of a global pandemic which could make things worse and ironically result in more deaths.

In my opinion the issue is clearly an us verus them issue. And the sooner that is stopped, the quicker things get better. Stop labelling things, stop grouping people together and fight the bad in people as one group of humans. Then all of a sudden, black lives don't matter because all lives matter.

Your point was “we’re all human”, And shouldn’t be categorised into racial groups, but that is simplistic. There are all kinds of racial and socio-economic groups that people belong to and that affect people in different ways. It’s very complex but the “we’re all the same” angle doesn’t work as we are not all the same.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Your point was “we’re all human”, And shouldn’t be categorised into racial groups, but that is simplistic. There are all kinds of racial and socio-economic groups that people belong to and that affect people in different ways. It’s very complex but the “we’re all the same” angle doesn’t work as we are not all the same.

We are all the same in a debate about black lives matter. We are all human, we are born then we die, we all bleed the same blood. I'm not denying black people don't exist or anything similar to that, I'm saying we shouldn't be labeling groups of people as it's segregating them which is something we are trying to fight against. One sure way of us
versus them situation is movements like black lives matter. You have then created a group which is segregating them over everyone else. Those of us that aren't racist know black lives matter. Those that are racist are now seeing the black lives matter movement as a us versus them situation which is the very thing we don’t want

All lives matter regardless of who you are. If we want to fight various situations such as what happened in America then we should be doing it as one, not separating it. We all matter and we can all fight it by helping each other.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

We are all the same in a debate about black lives matter.

No we’re not

We are all human, we are born then we die, we all bleed the same blood.

We don’t live the same lives, face the same issues, or have the same experiences and that can be said of any racial, sexual or socio-economic group.

I'm saying we shouldn't be labeling groups of people as it's segregating them which is something we are trying to fight against.

Saying someone is black, white, Asian, oriental whatever, is not labelling someone, anymore than any other descriptor.

A black person is black, a white person is white, that’s just factual.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

No we’re not

Why aren't we? Are only black people allowed to fight against it, are only white people allowed, what about Asians?

In the fight of equality which is what the black lives matter is about, surely the best way to fight it is to be equal, one, as in we are all human regardless of your colour or where you are born, as in, all lives matter. If you're starting out with something that isn't equal, then you're fighting a losing battle.

We don’t live the same lives, face the same issues, or have the same experiences and that can be said of any racial, sexual or socio-economic group.

No, but we all bleed the same colour blood and we all die. Yes there is a thousand and one different things in-between being born and dying which makes us who we are, but if you want to fight a battle against racism, then we all need to be equal. Making a slogan up just about one set of people is not the way to be equal.

Saying someone is black, white, Asian, oriental whatever, is not labelling someone, anymore than any other descriptor.

Fighting a global problem of racism and other things is were the problem lies. We are starting off by labelling black lives matter, which is a starting point of not being equal.

A black person is black, a white person is white, that’s just factual.

A black person might be black, a white person might be white but both are human which is factual also.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Why aren't we? Are only black people allowed to fight against it, are only white people allowed, what about Asians?

I can fight for racial equality, but I have no experience of racism against me, so I don’t actually really know what it’s like. Asians or any other minority may experience different types of racism.

In the fight of equality which is what the black lives matter is about,

. BLM is actually a movement started in the USA to highlight the deaths black people in America by the hands of the police.

surely the best way to fight it is to be equal, one, as in we are all human regardless of your colour or where you are born, as in, all lives matter. If you're starting out with something that isn't equal, then you're fighting a losing battle.

It’s a lovely sentiment, but not reality. That’s the destination, not the starting point.

No, but we all bleed the same colour blood and we all die. Yes there is a thousand and one different things in-between being born and dying which makes us who we are,

And In amongst those thousand and one thing are elements we need to identify and change if we want a more equal society.

but if you want to fight a battle against racism, then we all need to be equal. Making a slogan up just about one set of people is not the way to be equal.

But they are currently the ones that are less equal, generally.

Fighting a global problem of racism and other things is were the problem lies. We are starting off by labelling black lives matter, which is a starting point of not being equal.

because they’re not equal, at the moment. Generally, in the West they are not equal at all, for a whole host of reasons.

A black person might be black, a white person might be white but both are human which is factual also.

That’s right, and currently, generally, for many different reasons, the white person has a better outcome than the black person. So “saying” we’re all equal doesn’t cut it. Because we’re not.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can fight for racial equality, but I have no experience of racism against me, so I don’t actually really know what it’s like. Asians or any other minority may experience different types of racism.


. BLM is actually a movement started in the USA to highlight the deaths black people in America by the hands of the police.



It’s a lovely sentiment, but not reality. That’s the destination, not the starting point.

And In amongst those thousand and one thing are elements we need to identify and change if we want a more equal society.



But they are currently the ones that are less equal, generally.

because they’re not equal, at the moment. Generally, in the West they are not equal at all, for a whole host of reasons.



That’s right, and currently, generally, for many different reasons, the white person has a better outcome than the black person. So “saying” we’re all equal doesn’t cut it. Because we’re not.

And we never will be equal if we carry on labelling things such as black lives matter.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

And we never will be equal if we carry on labelling things such as black lives matter.

And yet when we (collective we, I didn’t personally) fought gay rights and equality, they did win on major issues such as marriage. Even though labelled “gay”

[Sephiroth]

.... and none of the above takes into account the distaste for each other as among Afro, Asian Muslim and Asian Hindu people.

On Blacks specifically and bearing in mind that blacks constitute 3% of the UK population, might there be a clue in these statistics on convictions, 2017:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....ictions/latest

Total number of convictions = 177,230
No of black ethnicity convicted: = 18,384 = 10.4%

It seems obvious to me (and others here are more-or-less saying this) that a definitive attack on the causes of excess crime in this ethnic group should be properly studied and dealt with - the latter being very difficult.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by Pierre

And yet when we (collective we, I didn’t personally) fought gay rights and equality, they did win on major issues such as marriage. Even though labelled “gay”

I agree. But it seems to be going too far these days. I think the vast majority of people don't have a problem with black people or gay people, more in civilised countries. I'm not saying all the work is done but I now think its time to start being equal. And in my opinion, black lives matter is not the way to do it.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mythica

I agree. But it seems to be going too far these days. I think the vast majority of people don't have a problem with black people or gay people, more in civilised countries. I'm not saying all the work is done but I now think its time to start being equal. And in my opinion, black lives matter is not the way to do it.

I understand that there are serious issues within the black community. I agree “Black Lives Matter” in the U.K. is wholly inappropriate. The reasons for BLM to exist in America do not exist in the UK.

If we need to racial issues in the U.K., I’m all for it, but not under the BLM banner.

The black community needs Support, but also need to look within themselves.

Of course this general, there are well off middle class black families and plenty of white families that are destitute. We take that as read.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by alanbjames

Ive recently been called a racist for saying "All lives matter not just black lives". The woman went mental at me and said i was racist.

If it had been a bloke the way they were towards me id have thumped them thats how bad they reacted.

Well racism is all about ignorance so perhaps she had a point, they're not saying black lives matter more than white, they're saying black lives matter to, in fact perhaps they should have called the movement that but they probably thought it was so obvious it didn't need clarification

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

But you are/were suggesting that the police are not addressing it fairly, disproportionately stopping and searching the black community more than any other group.

But if that group are more of a risk than others, you accept it is right to target them?

Take a peek at the BBC link i posted. then lets discuss further.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I understand that there are serious issues within the black community. I agree “Black Lives Matter” in the U.K. is wholly inappropriate. The reasons for BLM to exist in America do not exist in the UK.

If we need to racial issues in the U.K., I’m all for it, but not under the BLM banner.

The black community needs Support, but also need to look within themselves.

Of course this general, there are well off middle class black families and plenty of white families that are destitute. We take that as read.

Why is there such an issue with using the name? If it's used to highlight inequality and racism in society

Did you campaign for CIF to be renamed back to JIF ?

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Mythica

We are all the same in a debate about black lives matter. We are all human, we are born then we die, we all bleed the same blood. I'm not denying black people don't exist or anything similar to that, I'm saying we shouldn't be labeling groups of people as it's segregating them which is something we are trying to fight against. One sure way of us
versus them situation is movements like black lives matter. You have then created a group which is segregating them over everyone else. Those of us that aren't racist know black lives matter. Those that are racist are now seeing the black lives matter movement as a us versus them situation which is the very thing we don’t want

All lives matter regardless of who you are. If we want to fight various situations such as what happened in America then we should be doing it as one, not separating it. We all matter and we can all fight it by helping each other.

And here highlights the lack of understanding of the issue.

Not one person is saying other life doesn't matter.

People are saying we need to prioritise black lives right now.