Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Hard Brexit = Canada style trade deal or less
Soft Brexit = Canada-style deal including services (David Davies called it Canada++) or more.

It does have a difference. The terms are used to define how close a relationship with the EU we'll have.

Also all these 'leave means leave, we'll have nothing to do with them' is a nonsense. They are our largest trading partner and right on our doorstep. I am not sure what fantasy exists where they'll cease to be an entity we have to deal with.

Great post. Heck, even Brexiter tabloid The Sun acknowledges the two types of Brexit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/378670...iations-talks/

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes it is refreshing and hopeful for our democracy that there are some MPs that are not prepared to be bullied and herded like sheep, and will vote for what they know is right and in the best interests of the country. Another coffin nail for the hard Brexiters.

l get very fed up with these labels Mr K as they have been used far too much for my liking as politicians and the public have to go by what they believe in and as such we should respect that.

---------- Post added at 05:24 ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

There is no such things as a hard or soft brexit. Terms made up by hard Remainers.

We are still leaving, Brexit is still happening, as it should do, you know that bit about democracy, that you persistently disrespect.

Of course its still happening as you say it should but you did not seem too happy the other day with the PM after the first deal was concluded.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes it is refreshing and hopeful for our democracy that there are some MPs that are not prepared to be bullied and herded like sheep, and will vote for what they know is right and in the best interests of the country. Another coffin nail for the hard Brexiters.

Which would be a disgrace, and a punch in the eye for the electorate. The remainers aren't good losers, are they?

---------- Post added at 07:37 ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

If there’s no trade deal, we will have to accept EU MFN tariffs for exports to the EU. I would have thought that an uplift in pricing due to tariffs would make UK exports less competitive, especially with agriculture and fishing for example. How this reconciles with no hard border in Ireland, I don’t know.

As the EU has no wish for a hard border in Ireland, maybe you've answered your own question.

The biggest non-secret is that the EU actually DO want a deal!

Can someone explain why it’s wrong for MPs to have a vote on the actual legislation that will be produced after negotiations on leaving the EU, and why it’s right for MPs to have a vote on the laws and statutes produced when the Government (of any party) tries to introduce/change any other legislation?

In both cases, a majority of voters (whether it’s a General Election or a Referendum) have indicated they want something to happen - either to Leave the EU or in support of a Party Manifesto.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Can someone explain why it’s wrong for MPs to have a vote on the actual legislation that will be produced after negotiations on leaving the EU, and why it’s right for MPs to have a vote on the laws and statutes produced when the Government (of any party) tries to introduce/change any other legislation?

In both cases, a majority of voters (whether it’s a General Election or a Referendum) have indicated they want something to happen - either to Leave the EU or in support of a Party Manifesto.

I think some of the extreme Brexiters fear Parliamentary scrutiny will reduce the chances of a hard Brexit. It's not a philosophical question for them.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which would be a disgrace, and a punch in the eye for the electorate. The remainers aren't good losers, are they?

---------- Post added at 07:37 ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 ----------


As the EU has no wish for a hard border in Ireland, maybe you've answered your own question.

The biggest non-secret is that the EU actually DO want a deal!

Most people in Northern Ireland don't want a hard border either, even hardcore unionists.

Of course the EU wants a deal. With a few exceptions, the UK wants a deal too.

On the vote last night, can we just quote from the Vote Leave website;

Our laws should be made by people we can elect and kick out -
it's more democratic

Is there too much parliamentary sovereignty now?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think some of the extreme Brexiters fear Parliamentary scrutiny will reduce the chances of a hard Brexit. It's not a philosophical question for them.

No, it's not that. The fear is that if the EU knows that we have to take the deal that's on the table back to Parliament, who could then tell the Government to go back for further negotiations, this will put the UK on the back foot, and the EU could exploit the position. It could result in the UK getting a worse deal because our negotiating hand is weakened.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think some of the extreme Brexiters fear Parliamentary scrutiny will reduce the chances of a hard Brexit. It's not a philosophical question for them.

No such thing as a hard/soft Brexit. I have already said that. Leave means leave, no middle ground. No foot in the bloody doors.

Leave means you exit, depart, walk out of. If I leave my house or car, it means I’m no longer in or connected to it’s surroundings.

Leave on the ballot paper meant leaving the EU and that meant completely!

Unfortunately the government have to consider what's next after leaving. Leave means Leave isn't a policy proposal.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Can someone explain why it’s wrong for MPs to have a vote on the actual legislation that will be produced after negotiations on leaving the EU, and why it’s right for MPs to have a vote on the laws and statutes produced when the Government (of any party) tries to introduce/change any other legislation?

In both cases, a majority of voters (whether it’s a General Election or a Referendum) have indicated they want something to happen - either to Leave the EU or in support of a Party Manifesto.

It’s wrong because Parliament has already given the Democratic power to the people, us, they decided back in 2015, to give the people back the sovereign democratic decision to leave the EU and now they wanted that power back to stop the process because they cannot believe leave won.

Those rebel MPs are talking complete bollocks when they say they care about giving Parliament the sovereign power to decide, they did not give a toss about that for 40 years, while Brussels was deciding our laws.

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Unfortunately the government have to consider what's next after leaving. Leave means Leave isn't a policy proposal.

I disagree. Because a £9 Million leaflet that the government sent to every household in Britain, said they will act on what people decide, and the people decided they wanted to leave.

Originally Posted by Mick

I disagree. Because a £9 Million leaflet that the government sent to every household in Britain, said they will act on what people decide, and the people decided they wanted to leave.

But we are leaving the EU. Leaving the institution doesn't mean not having any external relationship with them. It means: Out of the jurisdiction of the ECJ, out of the single market, 'control' over immigration and so on. However Leaving the EU is the same thing as not having close ties to the EU.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Which would be a disgrace, and a punch in the eye for the electorate. The remainers aren't good losers, are they?

What a load a claptrap as most have clearly accepted it.

Originally Posted by denphone

What a load a claptrap as most have clearly accepted it.

Clearly they have not.

11 of them and all of the Labour scumbag MPs bar 2, that’s Feild and Hoey, clearly did not last night.

Parliament voted to have the Brexit referendum, then voted to trigger A50. How many more times do you want Parliament to have a say?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mick

Clearly they have not.

11 of them and all of the Labour scumbag MPs bar 2, that’s Feild and Hoey, clearly did not last night.

Parliament voted to have the Brexit referendum, then voted to trigger A50. How many more times do you want Parliament to have a say?

l am talking about the general public Mick as last nights vote is another matter in itself.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

Those rebel MPs are talking complete bollocks when they say they care about giving Parliament the sovereign power to decide, they did not give a toss about that for 40 years, while Brussels was deciding our laws.

You won, you voted for and got power restored to Parliament. Was it not clear on the voting form?