Black Lives Matter

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by pip08456

It's not Pierre's bolded part, it's yours.

Good luck in drilling home white privilege into underprivileged white people.

Underprivileged white people still have more privileges in certain areas than black people.

You're right, it's a monumental effort to make this point understood and be heard


Meanwhile, back in the US

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/08/white...neck-12819943/

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Underprivileged white people still have more privileges in certain areas than black people.

You're right, it's a monumental effort to make this point understood and be heard


Meanwhile, back in the US

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/08/white...neck-12819943/

Is that opinion or fact. If fact produce your proof.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed.

Also worth pointing out that this nation, having built so much on the profits of slavery, came to its collective senses, as a result of campaigning by its own people, and not only outlawed the practice but then actively sought its interdiction on the high seas via the Royal Navy.

I’m aware of contemporary complaints that the British government put a stop to it by paying off the slavers, and of the argument that it was somehow therefore just another example of rich men feeding money to other rich men, but this is exactly the sort of argument you get from people who don’t understand how to read history. Within the strictures of the time, it was a pragmatic solution and once done, it allowed this country to lead the world in efforts towards abolition.

Churchill, too, was a man of his time. So was Cecil Rhodes, whose statue at Oxford has been subject to ongoing demands for its removal. So, too, was Edward Colston, and for that matter Andrew Buchanan of Glasgow, who made a fortune from tobacco plantations in Virginia (and therefore, out of slave labour), and whose street in the city centre is now subject to demands it be re-named. Decrying any of these men merely as “racist” is ahistorical. Erasing any of them from memory or from history ensures future generations will be ignorant of history and ill-prepared for their own present. What is required is a proper understanding of context, not self-righteous iconoclasm.

We're possibly in agreement but I'm not sure (long morning and not enough coffee) but there's a big difference in a statue giving thanks to a slave trader and to one of Churchill.

The former has absolutely no place in modern society, especially with the inscription that it had. My thinking would be to erect something in replacement such as a monument to the 'unknown slave' in remembrance of the thousands upon thousands that were shipped (with many thousands dying) this would allow subsequent generations to learn the history without celebrating the individual.

---------- Post added at 13:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Is that opinion or fact. If fact produce your proof.

This is the whole point of white privilege, it's fact (as Pierre agrees) go and read about the invisible backpack/knapsack.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We're possibly in agreement but I'm not sure (long morning and not enough coffee) but there's a big difference in a statue giving thanks to a slave trader and to one of Churchill.

The former has absolutely no place in modern society, especially with the inscription that it had. My thinking would be to erect something in replacement such as a monument to the 'unknown slave' in remembrance of the thousands upon thousands that were shipped (with many thousands dying) this would allow subsequent generations to learn the history without celebrating the individual.

They’re not the same by any means, but there’s a spectrum of behaviour they both sit on. Churchill had some views about other races and initiated certain actions in empire territories that really don’t look at all good to modern eyes. Had he not led the country to victory in World War 2 his contribution to society probably wouldn’t be seen in the same way at all.

But mainly I’m lumping them together because of the tendency of certain campaigners to do so, if the vandalising of Churchill’s statue is anything to go by.

I think this suggestion is worth considering:

Scotland's first black professor has again called for plaques on Scotland's statues to give a truthful account of their links to the slave trade.
Sir Geoff Palmer, professor emeritus at Heriot-Watt University, said the move could help educate school pupils and change attitudes against racism.
He previously called for a plaque under Edinburgh's Melville Monument, which honours slave owner Henry Dundas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-52965230

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'm not missing anything at all.

Using the slogan BLM highlights exactly where the focus of efforts needs to be. BLM does not segregate people nor does it imply that other lives matter less.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------



That, is a great post.


There's a significant amount of the population who would argue that white privilege doesn't exist. That message has to be drilled home and they have to understand it.

Your bolded part is perhaps one of the most often asked and also most mis construed components.

This change however, needs to be sped up where possible.

Well if other lives don't matter less then all lives matter equally.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Well if other lives don't matter less then all lives matter
equally.

Whom, or where has it been said that all lives don't matter equally?

For the final time, and i really, really hope you understand this.

Saying 'Black Lives Matter' in no way detracts from 'All Lives Matter' 'Black Lives Matter' is being used to direct attention, people, resources & the spotlight to where they need to be positioned most RIGHT NOW

You're in my neck of the woods. See if this helps


There's a major accident on the A174 involving two lorries and a car. Then there's heavy traffic and a couple of rear end shunts on Acklam Road

Where do you prioritise sending the air ambulance and paramedics too ?

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Whom, or where has it been said that all lives don't matter equally?

For the final time, and i really, really hope you understand this.

Saying 'Black Lives Matter' in no way detracts from 'All Lives Matter' 'Black Lives Matter' is being used to direct attention, people, resources & the spotlight to where they need to be positioned most RIGHT NOW

A slogan of black lives matter. If all lives matter equally then all lives matter.

Yes it does. It's ironic that in a world we all need to be equal that we need to have slogans that segregate between us and them. If all lives matter then all lives matter regardless of who is on the other end. Just because all lives matter, doesn't mean we can't concentrate on what is wrong at this moment in time. Let's be one and let's be equal.

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Whom, or where has it been said that all lives don't matter equally?

For the final time, and i really, really hope you understand this.

Saying 'Black Lives Matter' in no way detracts from 'All Lives Matter' 'Black Lives Matter' is being used to direct attention, people, resources & the spotlight to where they need to be positioned most RIGHT NOW

You're in my neck of the woods. See if this helps


There's a major accident on the A174 involving two lorries and a car. Then there's heavy traffic and a couple of rear end shunts on Acklam Road

Where do you prioritise sending the air ambulance and paramedics too ?

Does that need answering?

What you don't do, is make a slogan up which states major accidents matter or lorries matter. You start with all lives matter then prioritise who needs help the most.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mythica

A slogan of black lives matter. If all lives matter equally then all lives matter.

Yes it does. It's ironic that in a world we all need to be equal that we need to have slogans that segregate between us and them. If all lives matter then all lives matter regardless of who is on the other end. Just because all lives matter, doesn't mean we can't concentrate on what is wrong at this moment in time. Let's be one and let's be equal.

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------



Does that need answering?

What you don't do, is make a slogan up which states major accidents matter or lorries matter. You start with all lives matter then prioritise who needs help the most.

It does, why dont you answer the question rather than dancing around the edges


here's something for you to mull over. 'If EVERYTHING is a priority then NOTHING is a priority'

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I believe that you're confusing white privilege with racism. As before white privilege != racism.

I'm going to come back and write a longer reply, your post deserves it.

But there's a few initial points

1) We (and i mean this collectively) need to look at what causes Black on Black violence as Pierre and i were discussion earlier in the thread this is due to socio/economic reasons that are highly complex and need to be untangled.

2) So what if black people use words that white people shouldnt use. If you call your husband/wife 'strumpet' would you be happy for me to do the same? Of course you wouldn't because the relationship is different.

3) With hindsight several programs shouldn't have been made It aint half hot mum & mind your language are just two that i can think of, Fawlty Towers is up there as well. In the past few days Keith Lemon & David Walliams have come out and said they wouldn't make those programs now.

4) Change is scary, of that there's no doubt. but it will happen. History shows us continuously

Finally, why would anyone in their right mind support violence and thuggery ?

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------



Who needs protection and help where possible most right now?

I'm going to single out just one of your enumerated points.
The others are also separate matters, the sum of which conflates to some perceptions of the "problem".

Your view in the highlighted paragraph is a direct challenge to freedom of expression. It is a terrible thing that we have to be afraid of using the terms "Micks", "Jocks", "Frogs", "Krauts" in an appropriate context. Also comedies such as you listed and in particular "Mind your language" unjustifiably provoke shock/horror among the wretched woke community. The woke community want our humour (part of British culture without doubt) to be stunted, a consequence of which could be the extinction of parody as both comedy and political observation.

The "black" case is actually very different. Mistreatment by the Police in particular is a complaint that needs to be resolved by a government actually delivering "levelling up" - if they know how to do it. I suppose that black people resent past exploitation by white people even though it is irrational in the present day context - but there nevertheless. When levelled up, all that will pass.

But some people in this thread are unwise to jump onto the multicultural bandwagon as the black case is one that stands out on its own.

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It does, why dont you answer the question rather than dancing around the edges


here's something for you to mull over. 'If EVERYTHING is a priority then NOTHING is a priority'

I don't think you're understanding what I'm writing.

Racism exists, it needs fixing.

Black lives matter.

White lives matter.

Every life matters.

So if all lives matter, but racism still exists, you can prioritise trying to fix racism under all lives matter still rather than making up a slogan of black lives matter and potentially segregating people based on skin colour when the aim is to have us all being equal.

Why can't we fix the problem of black lives matter under all lives matter?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I believe that you're confusing white privilege with racism. As before white privilege != racism.

I'm going to come back and write a longer reply, your post deserves it.

But there's a few initial points

1) We (and i mean this collectively) need to look at what causes Black on Black violence as Pierre and i were discussion earlier in the thread this is due to socio/economic reasons that are highly complex and need to be untangled.

2) So what if black people use words that white people shouldnt use. If you call your husband/wife 'strumpet' would you be happy for me to do the same? Of course you wouldn't because the relationship is different.

3) With hindsight several programs shouldn't have been made It aint half hot mum & mind your language are just two that i can think of, Fawlty Towers is up there as well. In the past few days Keith Lemon & David Walliams have come out and said they wouldn't make those programs now.

4) Change is scary, of that there's no doubt. but it will happen. History shows us continuously

Finally, why would anyone in their right mind support violence and thuggery ?

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------



Who needs protection and help where possible most right now?

1) Where is the evidence? Eg even very rich rappers get violent. It's just a feeble excuse trotted out. Large areas of the world are poor, yet they're not as violent or aggressive. Strange that.
2) If allowed behaviour is based upon race, than that is the very definition of RACIST. Using an example of a jokey term is just ridiculous and deliberately dodges the point. They're not using the words in a personal sense, but often in a general and derogatory manner. If they're using it in a personal manner, why can't everybody use it in a personal manner? Not saying they should, but is unsurprising hypocritical to allow one, but not the other.
3) Caricatures have been made of just about EVERY group, of WHATEVER race. Costumes, comedy characters, fancy dress, etc come from ALL races. NOTHING exclusively anti-non-white about any of it.
4) People HAVE been forced out because they don't support the violent actions. Try publicly criticising it and see what happens. Love to know of examples of where that HASN'T happened.


If Black people need protection, it is from THEMSELVES. The FACTS firmly back that up. White people aren't magically immune from being attacked.

Jodhpur cop kneels on neck of man not wearing face mask Jodhpur DCP (West) Priti Chandra said the policeman had acted in self-defence to prevent the man from attacking him.

Was that racist?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm going to single out just one of your enumerated points.
The others are also separate matters, the sum of which conflates to some perceptions of the "problem".

Your view in the highlighted paragraph is a direct challenge to freedom of expression. It is a terrible thing that we have to be afraid of using the terms "Micks", "Jocks", "Frogs", "Krauts" in an appropriate context. Also comedies such as you listed and in particular "Mind your language" unjustifiably provoke shock/horror among the wretched woke community. The woke community want our humour (part of British culture without doubt) to be stunted, a consequence of which could be the extinction of parody as both comedy and political observation.

The "black" case is actually very different. Mistreatment by the Police in particular is a complaint that needs to be resolved by a government actually delivering "levelling up" - if they know how to do it. I suppose that black people resent past exploitation by white people even though it is irrational in the present day context - but there nevertheless. When levelled up, all that will pass.

But some people in this thread are unwise to jump onto the multicultural bandwagon as the black case is one that stands out on its own.

Are you seriously trying to justify 'Mind your language' as not racist ?

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

1) Where is the evidence? Eg even very rich rappers get violent. It's just a feeble excuse trotted out. Large areas of the world are poor, yet they're not as violent or aggressive. Strange that.
2) If allowed behaviour is based upon race, than that is the very definition of RACIST. Using an example of a jokey term is just ridiculous and deliberately dodges the point. They're not using the words in a personal sense, but often in a general and derogatory manner. If they're using it in a personal manner, why can't everybody use it in a personal manner? Not saying they should, but is unsurprising hypocritical to allow one, but not the other.
3) Caricatures have been made of just about EVERY group, of WHATEVER race. Costumes, comedy characters, fancy dress, etc come from ALL races. NOTHING exclusively anti-non-white about any of it.
4) People HAVE been forced out because they don't support the violent actions. Try publicly criticising it and see what happens. Love to know of examples of where that HASN'T happened.


If Black people need protection, it is from THEMSELVES. The FACTS firmly back that up. White people aren't magically immune from being attacked.



Was that racist?

Black people need protecting from themselves. I've read it all now.



I cant quite believe you've written that utter pile of steaming Mod (Chris) Please behave.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Whom, or where has it been said that all lives don't matter equally?

For the final time, and i really, really hope you understand this.

Saying 'Black Lives Matter' in no way detracts from 'All Lives Matter' 'Black Lives Matter' is being used to direct attention, people, resources & the spotlight to where they need to be positioned most RIGHT NOW

You're in my neck of the woods. See if this helps


There's a major accident on the A174 involving two lorries and a car. Then there's heavy traffic and a couple of rear end shunts on Acklam Road

Where do you prioritise sending the air ambulance and paramedics too ?

The car with the black people in ???

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

The car with the black people in ???

How do you determine that then? Or, are we going into some sort of pavlovs dog scenario?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

How do you determine that then? Or, are we going into some sort of pavlovs dog scenario?

Black lives matter.